15-06-2001 00:18									#1
	Zero-Player Option Increase Your PM Length

Many strategy games allow a zero-player option in which only the computer players play each other.

I would like Civ3 to have such a zero-player option.

Sometimes its fun just to sit back and watch the computer players duke it out and see how it all turns out.

This is especially good for situations in which there is no point of playing further but you still want to see how the history of your world will continue to develop even after you've decided to cease actively playing.

It is also good for scenario development.

It should be quite easy to implement and with sufficient options you could view as much or as little detail as you wish so that it doesn't become too tedious to watch.

	15-06-2001 00:52									#2
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YES, I think everyone has thought of this and when you're just to damn tired to play just sit back and watch the rise and fall of civilizations

	15-06-2001 01:36									#3
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quote: Originally posted by polypheus Many strategy games allow a zero-player option in which only the computer players play each other. I would like Civ3 to have such a zero-player option.

Yes, why not? Im all for it. It would be the lazy players option to scenario-building.

You should be able to determine certain pause/save dates/turns; or stop playing/saving each 20, 50, 100 turn (or whatever). Or manually intervene when ever you like. Or switching side with a chosen AI-civ. It would be fun.

	15-06-2001 02:57									#4
	Re: Re: Zero-Player Option Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Ralf You should be able to determine certain pause/save dates/turns; or stop playing/saving each 20, 50, 100 turn (or whatever). Or manually intervene when ever you like. Or switching side with a chosen AI-civ. It would be fun.

In other words, just play God for a little while.
Not an extremely good idea, but why not. Could be fun sometimes

	15-06-2001 03:29									#5
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This would be an interesting option; but only if the AI was beefed up a bit.

	15-06-2001 05:20									#6
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I remeber trying this in Civ2, but it was depressing and boring watching the AI make feeble attacks with no chances of taking any cities. The only bit that was interesting to watch was the early game (when barbs could capture cities etc ). If the AI was improved so it could actually make decent attacks, etc. then this is a good option to include.

	15-06-2001 06:27									#7
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quote: Many strategy games allow a zero-player option in which only the computer players play each other.

Sorry, i don't like it, it's just not the kind of thing you would have in a civ game.

	15-06-2001 15:36									#8
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quote: Originally posted by DrFell I remeber trying this in Civ2, but it was depressing and boring watching the AI make feeble attacks with no chances of taking any cities. The only bit that was interesting to watch was the early game (when barbs could capture cities etc ). If the AI was improved so it could actually make decent attacks, etc. then this is a good option to include.

That is true... on a particularly boring day at work (which I am luckily finishing soon and getting back to study), I actually watched the computer play Civ2 for hours on a huge map. It is otherwise interesting, but the AI really won't found enough cities even if it there was lots of area all around its capital to expand to, and the AI attacks looked downright horrible. By the end of the day, the fundamentalist French had literally hundreds of Riflemen and a couple of dozen Cavalry units moving around the map every turn, but they only managed to capture an occasional city every now and then, always attacking with only a couple of units per turn and moving the others aimlessly along their railroads. I hope the AI will be greatly improved, but even if it isn't, the option to let the computer play all of the Civs in a scenario creator or cheat mode is sometimes so fun it should be included.

	16-06-2001 01:12									#9
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I would really like to see this feature implemented too. I would also like the ability to greatly speed up the moves under such an option, in order to be able to run through the same scenario a hundred times in, say, 3-4 hours. I know you could watch computer players play in Civ II by using the cheat menu the right way, but it got to be a pain.

	16-06-2001 01:40									#10
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I don't really make scenarios, but I think it would be nice just to have that, except have the game go a little slower so you could actually watch what is happening.
This could also be useful in watching what tactics work, and what don't, since you could watch it on Deity level.

	16-06-2001 04:46									#11
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I agree, I think this would be an excellent option to have -- not only for enjoyment (IF the AI is significantly improved!), but also to improve one's own tactics by observing what the AI does.

	16-06-2001 09:05									#12
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Sitting down in front of the computer to watch the AI play civ isn't exactly my idea of fun...and I doubt that you could learn much either.

However, just because I wouldn't do it, doesn't mean others wouldn't. As such, I have no good reason to argue against this option be included in the game, (unless it takes up too much space etc).

	16-06-2001 12:00									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Sean Sitting down in front of the computer to watch the AI play civ isn't exactly my idea of fun.

Why should one do that? My idea is to leave the computer alone, while I do other things. This feature should be used more like a advanced screensaver. When you come back from time to time; press the pause/stop command, in order to check up the current status. I agree of course that everything stands-and-falls with the quality of the AI.

	16-06-2001 17:02									#14
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Yes, I like that screensaver idea! Especially if they have a political map (with different colours for the territory of the various civs): I'd then do a maximum zoom-out, go off and have a cup of coffee (or work in another program), and come back to see how the borders had expanded or contracted... Nice.

	16-06-2001 17:33									#15
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Congratualtions, you've just invented the game that plays for you
All you need to do is look at the results from time to time

LOL

I realize this wasn't what you intended and I am actually for the idea but still

	16-06-2001 19:48									#16
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I'm sure that Firaxis have thought of this, as it is the fastest way for them to check the game balance for AI and special units

	16-06-2001 22:08									#17
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yes

Yes

YES

YES

JUST PUT IT IN. IT CAN'T HURT

	17-06-2001 01:56									#18
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What the hell put it in. As long as it doens't slow the release date down. I mean if the game could come out in early October without it and with it the game would come out 3 weeks later, I don't want it. Maybe if just one week later or the same time I say why not. I'm sure it wouldn't take that much time to implement this either.


Those dates are just hypothetical.

	17-06-2001 10:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Myrddin I'm sure that Firaxis have thought of this, as it is the fastest way for them to check the game balance for AI and special units

I heartily agree.

	17-06-2001 15:37									#20
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just not very useful as the Ai has never been clever enough... although you could use it as an easy way to learn how AI plays and then use that agaisnt them

	17-06-2001 18:15									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Jarouik ...I actually watched the computer play Civ2 for hours on a huge map...

Hang on, how do you actually do that? Are you talking about Civ II? I can't think of a way you could start a zero-player game...What do you have to do?

	17-06-2001 19:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by JosefGiven Hang on, how do you actually do that? Are you talking about Civ II? I can't think of a way you could start a zero-player game...What do you have to do?

Start a new game, activate cheat mode and the go to chose human player anbd pick:
No Human player (if you manage this right you can controll the barbarians for a different guerrila like game!).

	19-06-2001 12:54									#23
	Re: Re: eh? Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Henrik Start a new game, activate cheat mode and the go to chose human player anbd pick: No Human player (if you manage this right you can controll the barbarians for a different guerrila like game!).

Yes, that is the way to do it... there is one feature, though, I would rather live without: the game won't advance from one turn to next automatically, since it will still show you all of the notifications and pop-up boxes for the civilization you had selected before picking No human player. It would be great if the zero-player mode had a pause function, but would otherwise proceed automatically with no clicking needed, so you could run it on the background or while away from your computer. Really, it would make a great screensaver!

	19-06-2001 14:30									#24
	Re: Re: Re: eh? Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Jarouik Really, it would make a great screensaver!

The whole CIV III game as a screensaver?

Man, you should have a real underused Pentium 4 1.7GHz with 256MB of RAM to feel the need of a screensaver so... gorgeous

	19-06-2001 17:18									#25
	Re: Re: Re: Re: eh? Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith The whole CIV III game as a screensaver? Man, you should have a real underused Pentium 4 1.7GHz with 256MB of RAM to feel the need of a screensaver so... gorgeous

Actually, it shouldn't be difficult to do... Firaxis could just include on the cd a small screensaver module that, when triggered, starts up a game in a special zero-player demo mode

(Although it would take a while to start up the game, I agree...)

So perhaps they could have the whole Civ 3 code load into your system memory when you boot the computer, so then you can start a game really quickly whenever you want to, since once you have Civ 3 you will be playing it all the time anyway

	19-06-2001 18:46									#26
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quote: I'm sure that Firaxis have thought of this, as it is the fastest way for them to check the game balance for AI and special units

That's what they did to balance SMAC. I remember Firaxis saying that they just taped down the enter key and left the computer running while they ate lunch and stuff.

	20-06-2001 21:06									#27
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You know what would be really cool, is if you could do this for scenarios. Just grab some popcorn and watch the nazi's march across europe. Then watch the allies kick their butts.

It would also be cool to be able to record a no human player game, that way you could watch your favourite campaigns over and over. It would also be useful for finding out the AI's mistakes, and analyzing them in depth.