03-07-2000 19:37									#1
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What do you guys consider a super science city?? Since i'm a pracitcal newbie my best one had HG, Clossus, ike's, and cope's. AT it's best it was making about 500 science, and it had around 87 trade. Is that good or is mine a lousy one compared to yours. I didn't really get good trade routes for a while so i know i have to improve that. Do you have any more suggestions, thanks.

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SABRECAT

--The man who dies with the most toys is still nonetheless... dead.

	03-07-2000 20:10									#2
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well, 87 is a decent amount of trade - not outstanding but pretty good. over 100 is something to shoot for. I usually can get somewhere around 100-110 with more than one city. With the right amout of everything, you can go over 150 (i think my best trade city was almost 200, but then i was getting around 30 or so for each trade route before the collosus expired) Ideally, you'll have trade 4 trade specials (gold, gems etc) and all 21 of your city squares producing trade. Rivers are nice as well, since they produce an extra trade with bridges. Always put a road on your trade specials to increase the trade on them, not to mention the obvious of putting roads on plains/grasslands. good luck

	03-07-2000 22:22									#3
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Yeah, i guess i didn't pick great trade specials, it was my capital, and i decided to make it that because when the gardens came around, it was the best one. I did make a very good trade route from Ur (which i renamed LOSERVILLE13) that was uranium sent across the whole globe (for 1413 gold is that good?). After i go on AC i had a chance to boost my trade and got it into the hundreds, but by then i was a fundy killing off the rest of the world.


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SABRECAT

--The man who dies with the most toys is still nonetheless... dead.

	04-07-2000 01:30									#4
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What are your guys best SSC's? (Judging by trade, beakers, and production). Mine had a production of 82

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SABRECAT

--The man who dies with the most toys is still nonetheless... dead.

	04-07-2000 06:19									#5
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OCC cities often produce 80+ sheilds and sometimes more than 1500 beakers per turn at their peek.

	04-07-2000 07:07									#6
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Well, thanks for showing me up . I am still a newbie

	04-07-2000 14:56									#7
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Sabrecat - I'm sure that Smash was not setting out to 'show you up' simply to inform you.

Don't forget that we OCC specialists (dare I include myself amongst the group?) are building cities in near ideal situations with three or four trade specials in the city radius and no other priority than to maximise science production - with this sort of single mindedness we would expect to out-gun 90% of SSCs after all in an ordinary game the SSC is simply a part of some overall strategy not the entire strategy.

Give one of the OCC fortnights a try - some of the later ones are a tad bizarre, but the earlier ones are fairly straight forward and I think you will enjoy it....

Good civin'

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	05-07-2000 09:08									#9
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I was being a little sarcastic, since i know all of you are better than me, but then again, that was in a regular game where you won't usually find gold, sil, and spice (for example) in one radius. I guess i should have terra-formed the wheat into silk though . I would have built shake's, but i was building ike's (and i think that's more important to a ssc) and the babylonians took it.

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SABRECAT

--The man who dies with the most toys is still nonetheless... dead.

	04-07-2000 23:05									#10
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yes thats true our fortnight cities have very good locations to start.You can get them in regular play but you need some "map" luck.

A good "regular" game SSC would probably come in around 700-1200 beakers per turn at peek.

Map size plays a role also.I'm much more likely to find a 4 special site on smaller maps than larger.Large maps almost always require you to mine 1 0r 2 specials.Hopefully they are there.

	04-07-2000 23:34									#11
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As far as i know to get the perfect SSC you need :
4 specials that give trade
Colossus
Copernic
Isaac Newton
Democracy
evrthng is railroded
Super Highways

Please tell me if i forgot smth.

	05-07-2000 05:00									#12
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Xin Yu has pointed out that every cit in a science city should be a scientist (at least most of the time). You can keep them alive by sending food caravans, and even make the city grow by sending food.

One can infer from this that a good science city site should be near one or two other good city sites from which it will be convenient and safe to send food.

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

	05-07-2000 05:44									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm one of those people who usually don't build a science city. I steal, extort and conquer most of my science, with the exeption of the first millenia. Or I will trade for tech in a more peaceful game, in a tech-broker role. If I do build one, in normal games, I would aim for about a thousand beakers a turn eventually. In some games, I've encountered people making 1500 or more beakers, though I've never managed to get that much myself. OCC is different altogether. A prefab starting position, which you have in most OCC games, can hardly be compared with a random site in a normal game. How often do you stumble, in a random map, on a spot that has lots of rivers and four terrain specials? If I do find one early on, I'll go for a SSC. If I don't, well, then my enemies can expect more tech stealing diplo's than China has unleashed on the USA in recent years.

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Hasdrubal's Home.
Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.

	05-07-2000 20:03									#15
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That sounds really hard. Actually, i'm playing on a cylindrical world now... so i got something to try (if the enemy civs stay alive long enough hehe). Wouldn't you double the 200% trade bonus you get for uranium(if they demand it) if it went to a foreign civ? I was playing on the large earth world with no randomizing huts or special squares. I actually got a few good city sites.

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SABRECAT

--The man who dies with the most toys is still nonetheless... dead.

	05-07-2000 20:45									#16
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Sabrecat, my experience with freight units is that if you get deep into future technologies you get more coins by sending the units half way around the world to your own cities rather than trade with an AI city. While I haven't analyzed this with any detail I suspect the reason is that you will be smart enough to build roads on every irragatable square and build the superhighway improvement in the destination city.

For what it is worth I have had a freight unit come in at over 7000 coins. Sorry I can't remember the hundreds digit. There are people who know the formula for calculating the value of a freight unit. Given the distance limitation of 250 squares, is it possible for a freight unit to be worth 10,000 coins?

	06-07-2000 09:24									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It may be... If they count going up as a distance, then if you go 250 and 40 up, so it could be, but probably not. I'd be happy with 7000 anyday. Do you know if you get the science bonus if you trade within your own civ?

	06-07-2000 03:04									#18
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Hey, Scouse Gits (or anyone for that matter)
could you tell me where the earlier OCC's are??

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SABRECAT

--The man who dies with the most toys is still nonetheless... dead.

	06-07-2000 03:14									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hey Sabre!

If you change the pull down box that says [show topics from the last] to "the last year" you can find the first OCC fortnight game around page eleven. By the way, reading old threads this way is a great way to learn more about the game - the archive of older threads is another.

Also Paul's excellent web site has several OCC map saves like 4whales and Birds game.
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited July 05, 2000).]

	06-07-2000 03:46									#21
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Another requirement for a perfect sss is a supermarket and irrigated farmland so that the city can grow to use the max of 15 science specialists.

	06-07-2000 04:34									#22
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Soudns like a good idea. Thanks guys

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SABRECAT

--The man who dies with the most toys is still nonetheless... dead.

	06-07-2000 05:35									#23
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I beleive Paul's site has every "fortnight OCC" to date.As well as at least 4 other comparison games.

	07-07-2000 23:20									#24
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Sabrecat, you get a science bonus if you trade with your own cities.

Once I get radio I pretty much stop trading with AI civilizations. It takes too much time to deliver freight units to them and you run the risk of their destruction by the AI or barbarians.

My tactic is to build a freight unit, fly it half way around the world and deliver it on the next turn. Even if you have to buy all 50 shields the incremental cost is only 260 coins. Freight units shipped halfway around the world are normally worth much more. This includes unwanted hides. This is why I like to have cities scattered all over the world. No matter what city builds a freight unit there is a city about half way around the world. Of course if I have a big city that actually needs the item then I will ship the freight unit to that city.

PS: Normally I play on large multicontinent worlds. Results may vary if you play on small single continent worlds.

	08-07-2000 05:48									#25
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I've heard about the goto problems the ai has around the 0 axis, so if you had one city on one side and one on the other, would that be "sending it across the whole world" in two moves??