15-06-2001 14:36									#1
	Improving the Movement system Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Like most people here on the forum, I realise that it's probably too late to make suggestions which will get included in Civ III. You never know until you try though, so here goes:

I see several ways of improving the movement system without unbalancing the the game
1) increase the size (in km's) of tiles, so that a single MP equates to a much longer distance than in Civ II.

2) Give units higher MP allowances at the start of the game (to reflect turn length), but reduce it by 1 at the start of each era!

3) Give units a Maximum unsupported range in enemy territory so that, even if the unit/army has a move of 18 tiles (on a road), if it only has a range of 8 tiles in enemy territory, then it can only capture cities and land within this range (and this can be good news if your Capital lies only 12 hexes from the enemies border). As I mentioned in my post to the "Army Attrition" thread, capturing an enemy city or building a supply depot will allow you to calculate your range from this point.
Range should probably increase by 1 per era, to reflect improvements in supply technology!

4) Tile improvements should not have time cost, but should instead have an MP cost. For example, a farm might cost a worker 1/2-1MP to build, wheras a mine might cost up to 3MP's to build. This way, improvements won't take decades to complete in ancient times, but the number of improvements a worker can build per turn will be limited!

5) Fighters/Bombers should probably act in the same fasion as Coastal fortresses will, in that they automatically attack enemy air units which come within their ZOC's, creating Aerial "Choke Points"

6) Air-lifts should require a special aerial transport unit.

7) Aircraft Carriers should have a higher MP rating than fighter aircraft of the same era, to make them worth building (Probably about 2MP's higher!)

Anyway, just a few points I'd like to make. I'd be interested to know what peoples thoughts are on this matter!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

	15-06-2001 15:57									#2
	semi turns Full PM-box? Change here!

I think the entire movement problem could be solved by 'semi turns'

Every turn consists of 6 semi-turns.
During 1 turn all the stuff happens that used to happen during a turn.
During a semi-turn you can only move your units. (Of course you can still change options in the city screen etc. but your production won't grow, cities won't grow etc. etc.)

That would terminate the unrealistic fact that a unit can only move a few miles per year / 100 years.
On the other side you won't have to be afraid that suddenly 20 tanks from India will show up in Europe in one turn, since you'll see them coming and you have time enough to move your tanks to the right place.

It will make it more important to have a good defending since you won't have much time to build up one when you see the tanks coming. (in the current game you see 20 tanks moving from India, and then you still have 8 turns to build up a counter army to protect your cities)

Pherhaps the number of semi-turns should increase each 'era' (let's say 2 semi turns in the beginning and 6 in the 20th century)

It would make the game more realistic and it would inrease the fun, increase the importance of a good defending.
It will decrease the period a war takes (right now a normal war already takes 100 years, which is really unrealistic) and for that reason war won't dominate the game as much as it does right now. That will give more time for building up your empire, your culture and diplomatic friendship with your neighbours.

CyberShy

	19-06-2001 04:19									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Hi Again,

I just thought I'd add a few additional points to what I've mentioned above.
1) At the start of the game civilian foot units (Workers, Settlers etc) should have a base move of 3, military units should have a base move of 4 and cavalry units should have a base move of 6. This should drop down to 1, 2 and 4 respectively by the modern era. When they are introduced, motorized units should have a base move of 5 (or 6).
2) The thing which should truly limit a units' movement should be terrain and operational range, not MP's. To this effect, certain terrain (like hills and forests), should have a greater effect on motorized units than cavalry and they, in turn, should be more effected by this terrain than foot-soldiers. Mountains should be impassible to motorized and horse units until a road (or RR) is built through that tile.
3) Roads should only give 3x movement to units when built on relatively flat, unbroken terrain. On hills, swamps, mountains and forests, roads should only grant maximum benefit to foot soldiers and certain specialist, non-foot units (with decreasing benefit for cavalry, and less still for motorized units).
4) If RR's have unlimited movement, then the following restrictions should probably be placed on them:
a) No RR sprawl (i.e. a RR should neatly connect 2 cities)
b) Damaged RR's should not grant any movement benefits.
c) The only way to gain the benefit of RR use, would be to enter that tile from a city you or an ally controls. This is important, as it would prevent an enemy from using your RR network against you, unless he first controls one of your cities (it also makes cities with multiple RR's key targets for conquest!)
d) RR's should have a maximum capacity. This should be both the number of units which can occupy a single RR tile at a time, and the total no. of units that can use a single rail connection in a turn. Cavalry and motorized units should count as 2 and 3 units respectively for determining capacity! Roads should also probably have a capacity (but much higher than for RR's)
5) The number of MP's an attack costs should depend on the type of terrain they are attacking into (eg. attacks on a city atop a hill should cost 2 MP's), this terrain effect should also apply to building improvements. Alpine units should have the ability to count mountain terrain as plains (or hills) for the purpose of MP cost of an attack. If a unit lacks the requisite MP's, then they should still be able to attack but at a penalty to attack (cumulative to any normal penalties for that terrain). Additionally, units should be able to attack multiple targets in a turn if they possess the neccessary MP's.
6) Ships stopping at friendly ports, and aircraft stopping at friendly airfields (on terrain or in cities), should get additional MP's for that turn, to reflect refueling and resupply. This effect should be subject to the law of diminishing returns to retain play balance (eg a unit might get 5MP's for it's first stop, then 4, then 3 etc. etc.)

7) As I said above, the key limiting factor to movement outside your own (or allied) territory should be range. Basically foot soldiers should have the longest range and motorized units should have the shortest (cavalry and artillary would be intermediate). Special-Op forces should have a longer range than ordinary units (reflecting an ability to live off the land!) Harsh terrain (mountains, deserts etc.) should lessen the effective range of a unit, unless it has been specially designed for operating in that environment (Alpine Troops and dervishes, for example!). Roads, RR's and resource tiles should all increase effective range (but only if you control them). An armies range (and movement) would be limited by the unit with the smallest number in these categories.
The importance of this rule is that, especially in ancient times, it will be easier to protect your frontiers from attack, as your units would often be able to travel from one end of your nation to the other in 1 turn. In enemy territory, however, this ability would be balanced by the need to stay within a short range to avoid attrition, and the need to build supply depots or attack nearby cities (which would both cost MP's) to extend this range (N.B: I'm not sure if range should be absolute, or if passing your maximum range causes your units to lose hp's for every extra hex they travel).
Anyway, just a few more ideas. I'd like to know what people think (please don't flame me too harshly). Sorry for the length of the post.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.