17-06-2001 15:30									#1
	Iberian kingdom in.....Georgia!!!!! Increase the size of your Attachments

Reading a thread that Masis opened about his new scenario: Age of Basilius, I have discovered that the old name of a caucasian kingdom was Iberia, it is very interesting because which could be the reason of this?
Masis said that could be some Iberian refugiees from Roman domination??
and I have thought that there is a language very similar to Basque in Caucasus or in Ural mountains(i don´t remember), could be any links with it???

Masis add this site about this kingdom:

http://www.friesian.com/romania.htm#georgia

Last edited by kIndal on 17-06-2001 at 15:37

	17-06-2001 17:10									#2
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I´ve read about it and I was quite surprised

I checked the webpage but I didn´t find information about the country

when was the word Iberia used the first time to call our peninsula??

	17-06-2001 17:18									#3
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I haven´t found anything

	17-06-2001 17:30									#4
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I think the greeks were the first to use this name for our peninsula. Iberia means something like land of rabbits (rabbitlandia ) due to the masive population of this animal in the peninsula.

	17-06-2001 17:34									#5
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It's not the first time I hear of this iberian connection, and it is indeed a very interesting subject. I'll have a look to see what i can find about it.

	17-06-2001 17:43									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Flip I think the greeks were the first to use this name for our peninsula. Iberia means something like land of rabbits (rabbitlandia ) due to the masive population of this animal in the peninsula.

Other theories point to this connections:

Ibarra (basque name)
Iber (Ebro river)

	17-06-2001 20:30									#7
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On one hand, it is quite possible that a migration brought with it a name. On the other hand, such a short name (Iber) could crop up by coincidence. For a kingdom, even a minor one, to be so named by neighbors, a significant number of people - and probably not refugees - would have had to move. Maybe it will pop up somewhere in an obscure reference... I'll ask my brother-in-law, an expert in classics and roman-era history. Maybe he's heard of something.

I've not heard of anybody finding any language that can be clearly related to Basque. This doesn't discount the possibility, by any means. However, the best evidence is scant and tenuous at best - they have similar grammatical structures and some words with possibly common roots. That Basque, Georgian, Chinese, and Navajo could be of the same linguistic family makes for very interesting migration stories!

	17-06-2001 20:55									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Flip Iberia means something like land of rabbits (rabbitlandia ) due to the masive population of this animal in the peninsula.

In fact, it's Hispania (the Carthaginian name of our Peninsula, later taken by the Romans) which means "Land of Rabbits".

Iberia was, as you pointed out, the name the Greeks gave to the Peninsula, so "Iberia" and "Hispania" were used to designate exactly the same thing.

	17-06-2001 21:25									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Fiera In fact, it's Hispania (the Carthaginian name of our Peninsula, later taken by the Romans) which means "Land of Rabbits". Iberia was, as you pointed out, the name the Greeks gave to the Peninsula, so "Iberia" and "Hispania" were used to designate exactly the same thing.

About word Hispania, its meaning isn´t so clear I have heard other version, it came from German tribes, Spa- means little snake (culebra) in some Germanic languages and as "Rabbit land", too can mean, "Snake land".

	17-06-2001 21:47									#10
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quote: Originally posted by kIndal About word Hispania, its meaning isn´t so clear I have heard other version, it came from German tribes, Spa- means little snake (culebra) in some Germanic languages and as "Rabbit land", too can mean, "Snake land".

I remember to have read something about snake-land but with a punic origin (I've been looking for the book without success)

	17-06-2001 22:12									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Fiera In fact, it's Hispania (the Carthaginian name of our Peninsula, later taken by the Romans) which means "Land of Rabbits". Iberia was, as you pointed out, the name the Greeks gave to the Peninsula, so "Iberia" and "Hispania" were used to designate exactly the same thing.

I know that Hannibal took refuge in Armenia-designing the new capital Artashats in the process-could he and his followers have sought to establish a kingdom to the north of Armenia-naming it Iberia? Hannibal fled later to Syria and Bithynia before commiting suicide. As for links to information on the Caucasian kingdom of Iberia, here are some Here , Here and Here. The link provided by Kindal is the best as it gives a chronological order of the reigning kings of Abasgia (Abkhazia) and Iberia (Georgia). Lazica (Land of Greeks) was once called Colchis-a land famed in the epic 'Jason and the Argonauts' when he went in search of the Golden Fleece.
Its nice that the inhabitants of Old Iberia (wink) take an interest in this little outpost in the Caucasus...

	17-06-2001 22:16									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Fiera In fact, it's Hispania (the Carthaginian name of our Peninsula, later taken by the Romans) which means "Land of Rabbits". Iberia was, as you pointed out, the name the Greeks gave to the Peninsula, so "Iberia" and "Hispania" were used to designate exactly the same thing.

I know that Hannibal took refuge in Armenia-designing the new capital Artashats in the process-could he and his followers have sought to establish a kingdom to the north of Armenia-naming it Iberia? Hannibal fled later to Syria and Bithynia before commiting suicide. As for links to information on the Caucasian kingdom of Iberia, here are some Here , Here and Here. The link provided by Kindal is the best as it gives a chronological order of the reigning kings of Abasgia (Abkhazia) and Iberia (Georgia). Lazica (Land of Greeks) was once called Colchis-a land famed in the epic 'Jason and the Argonauts' when he went in search of the Golden Fleece.
Its nice that the inhabitants of Old Iberia (wink) take an interest in this little outpost in the Caucasus...

	18-06-2001 00:15									#13
	Re: Iberian kingdom in.....Georgia!!!!! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by kIndal Reading a thread that Masis opened about his new scenario: Age of Basilius, I have discovered that the old name of a caucasian kingdom was Iberia, it is very interesting because which could be the reason of this? Masis said that could be some Iberian refugiees from Roman domination?? and I have thought that there is a language very similar to Basque in Caucasus or in Ural mountains(i don´t remember), could be any links with it??? Masis add this site about this kingdom: http://www.friesian.com/romania.htm#georgia

I would like to add that my conjecture on the appearance of the Iberian kingdom in the Caucasus may have been due to Roman deportation. After all it was a policy of Roman rule to divide and rule; How better than to deport an unruly Iberian tribe far away via ship to the far end of the Pontos Euxinos (Black Sea) leaving them to their fate and to cause problems for the Armenian nation? It is also worth notingthat the old name for Azerbaijan was Albania. Was this also a result of Romans deporting unrulr Illyrians to the far end of the Caucasus? When were the Romans interested in the Caucasus? Well during the expansionist years under Crassos, Pompey and Markos Antonios they were very active in the Caucasus region brining the local rulers under their own rule. It was important for the Romans to keep Armenia (Hyastan) under their rule or allied to them rather than Parthia/Persia; How better than to weaken Armenia by ofloading unruly tribes from the west onto Armenia's doorstep? Even their was once a kingdom called Lazica Of Greeks=Ellas) situated on the coastal area of modern Georgia south of Abkhazia...was this too a result of Roman divide and rule deporting unruly Greeks to the far end of the Pontos Euxinos?

As for the double posts, the first one should be deleted as the second one has a Hyperlinked word=Hannibal. It leads to information on Hannibal's refuge period in Armenia.

	18-06-2001 00:33									#14
	HERE IS THE CAUCASUS CIRCA 50BC Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

THIS IS THE REGION OF THE CAUCASUS CIRCA 50BC...
Hopefully you may comprehend it.

Attachment: attachment.jpg
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

Last edited by Masis on 30-06-2001 at 18:15

	18-06-2001 01:31									#15
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Out of curiousity!

I suppose the answer is no but...

Has the Alania in your map somnthing to do with the Germanic tribe of the Alans?

	18-06-2001 02:21									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Waku Out of curiousity! I suppose the answer is no but... Has the Alania in your map somnthing to do with the Germanic tribe of the Alans?

No! Yet I could name you the Algarve, Old Castille, New Castille, Catalonia, Andalusia, Asturias, Basque Province, Navarre, Murcia, Estremadura and Gallicia as regions of the Iberian penninsula....strange why we easterners are so fascinated by the west yet the west hardly knows much of the east.

The Alans are said to be Iranians, but baring in mind that the original Iranians (Arians-oops thats a rascist word) were light skinned and fair haired and that Iranian and German is a related language the Alans could be said to be "German".

Now back to the kingdom of Iberia.
To learn a little of this kingdom, my best advice is to first play Age of Basilius now available at the European Civilization II site and Das Civilization Universum site.

	22-06-2001 01:34									#17
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Ah, ah, ignorants.
I told it earlier to Jesus M,
but have nothing to do, so will write it here again...
Iberia name for this part of Caucasus is older than Roman rule over
what now is Spain. I'm not sure f it isn't older than name Iberia for
Your beloved part of Earth, in fact.
The same goes for Albania.

Name Iberia comes from tribe Tiberians, Tiberans o.s.l.t.