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Ken Hinds
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Don't forget there is also a distance from the capital factor. I think the thread that Rah mentioned is the one where we were discussing the problems involved in getting an advanced tribe in the wrong location at the wrong time. Several of us, myself included, had gotten cities from huts that caused a stable civ to go into mass riots without having the hut city also riot. Most often this had happened if for example: you had 15 well spaced cities total before poping the hut. With some of the cities in the stable civ 80 -> 100 tiles from your capital and on more than one land mass or several islands. Lets say that for whatever reason your unpoped hut was only 20 tiles from the capital and on the same land mass. After poping you most likely got a population 4 city, or possibly only size 3, which would be close enough not to riot, but would cause 3 or 4 cities on the fringes of your empire to riot or just fall out of WLxD status, which can actully end up being worse.
The numbers above are just examples and not actual measures. In that particular discussion none of us were using exact figures and meaurements we were just comparing situations that we had experienced.
Ken
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:12
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Test #2. Small map, Deity. (On a Mac version of the game) None of the cities linked by roads, as they weren't in the first test on the large map. All cities within 6 or 7 squares of each other.
Under Despotism, the 6th city built produced an unhappy citizen. At that point, I had 1 city size 2, and 4 size 1. It was the last city built - obviously a size 1 - that went into revolt. I corrected the unhappiness. Next turn, another size 1 city and the size 2 city went into revolt. The size 2 city had a defender in it, so it wasn't a martial law problem.
Under Monarchy, the 8th city built produced an unhappy citizen, and a size 2 city (with a defender in it) went into revolt.
Which only really tells us, I suppose, that map sizes could have an impact on the equation. 
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:12
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The only Monarchy test I hadn't done was on the large map. Just did it. My 11th city produced a content citizen, but another size 1 city went into revolt, as did another size 2 city with a defender in it. So 10 was the limit.
My findings, based on an entirely unscientific series of tests:
Small Map - 7 cities in Monarchy before unhappiness
Medium Map - the same
Large Map - 10 cities in Monarchy before unhappiness
So large maps certainly seem to give you leeway in city numbers.
This, remember, is the Mac version of the game. I have the PC version, which I bought before the Mac version was ported, and I played on the Mac via SoftWindows. I'll open up the PC version and give it a try.
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:12
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I think I should get a life. But anyway ...
Did some tests with the PC version, playing it on my Mac via SoftWindows. And I'd forgotten how different the interfaces are. The OK and Cancel buttons are reversed on the PC version, which meant I was automatically hitting the wrong button from time to time.  And you also get a little bell/chime sound when you build a city in the PC version. How endearing. The script/font used in the PC version is more elegant, too.
Anyway ...
1. Small Map - under Monarchy, the 7th city produced an unhappy chappie.
2. Medium Map - this was interesting. My first map gave me a small island. Bastards. But I had a go anyway. Under Despotism, my 5th city produced an unhappy chappie. I didn't have the space to build any more cities. Abandoned the attempt.
Second attempt. Under Monarchy, my 7th city produced an unhappy chappie.
3. Large Map - Under Monarchy, my 10th city produced an unhappy chappie.
So map size certainly plays a part in the equation. And the PC version - on the basis of these immensely unscientific tests, anyway - allowed one less city before unhappiness under Monarchy than the Mac version. You'd have to do a lot more tests to make that a given, methinks.
That summary:
MAC
Small Map - 7 (before unhappiness)
Medium Map - 7
Large Map - 10
PC
Small - 6
Medium - 6
Large - 9
But, given my results, Smash's unhappiness factor - after 4 cities - does seem a bit odd.
Now I'll go and get a life.
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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]
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Taian
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Winterpeg
Mar 2000
time: 23:12
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My experience agrees with that...the only other thing that may affect it is the timeline. I think those numbers change as the game progresses.
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Carolus Rex
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Sweden
Jan 1970
time: 06:12
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A question related to Smash's original post.
What happens if a player changes the game parametres in MP? Is it possible for a player to cheat by increasing the riot factor, for exampe?
What about the host, can he do it? How can you detect if someone has done such a thing, do the host's settings apply to all players? Or do "individual" settings apply? How do you detect it in that case?
Carolus
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11-07-2000 00:11
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