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Vrank Prins
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Haarlem, Netherlands
Sep 2000
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by bertje121
brang |
Bertje brengen is in het engels inderdaad een sterk werkwoord maar de verleden tijd van to bring is niet brang maar brought.
En voor wat betreft de rest, ben ik het helemaal met je eens
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Vrank Prins
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Haarlem, Netherlands
Sep 2000
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Gangerolf
The last sentence would be something like this:
'And for what concerns the rest, I am totally agreeing with you.'
(more or less). |
You're understanding of dutch is pretty good. I figured someone would come up with the right interpretation of it all !! Bedankt voor de translation !!  .
Problem with the "germans" is that, that germany is actually only since 1870 a united nation. Before that time it was a pretty uncoherent collection of counties, diocese's, duchies, principalities, "free imperial cities" (freie Reichsstadt) (like Hamburg, Bremen, uptill ca. 1580 we had a few cities like that in the Netherlands), etc. From 1700 (sharp) on Prussia (Preussen) became more and more the dominant and later on binding factor. Uptill 1870 the institute of the german emperor has never been a very strong presence in german history. The Austrian emperor became a strong factor in Austria after 1648.
The germans have contributed largely to scientific and industrial development from the first half of the 19th century on to the midst of the 20th century . It was their time of "emancipation", to become a full grown nation like Spain, France, England/Brittain and Russia.
A bit like Italy, that's why there's a strong resemblance between the modern history of the two nations.
But still, and I'm going to make my vote now, I'm going for the chinese. They have always been there. It is only since modern times that they have been surpassed by other nations.
Last edited by Vrank Prins on 25-06-2001 at 20:59
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JMarks
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formerly known as the artist
Mar 2000
time: 05:14
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I'd go for the Greeks, the Romans, and the Americans, but being as your only supposed to vote once, I go with America, the acme, the zenith, of Western Civilization. We also saved Europe's behind in two World Wars and have a considerable economic and social influence (much to the shagrin of other nations, and myself at times) the world through. Ergo, USA gets my vote, though I would suggest everyone here study Latin and Attic Greek for fun.
Long live the Americanization of the World! Hellanization was but the first step! Rominazation the next!
Ioanes
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polypheus
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United Nations of Earth
Jun 2001
time: 21:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Vrank Prins
Problem with the "germans" is that, that germany is actually only since 1870 a united nation... |
I'm not sure that this is entirely true. From 962-1806, Germany was united as one nation called the "Holy Roman Empire" whose borders correspond to those of modern Germany. The first Holy Roman Emperor was Otto I, crowned in 962. The HRE was formally dissolved by Napoleon in 1806.
Germany has been a united nation in four forms throughout history. The first is the Holy Roman Empire, called the "first reich". The second is the creation of the modern German nation in 1870 which is the "second reich". The infamous "third reich" is Nazi Germany (and that is why Hitler called it the "3rd reich" in reference to the first two reichs. The current Germany is thus the "fourth reich" of the German nation.
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Vrank Prins
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Haarlem, Netherlands
Sep 2000
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by polypheus
I'm not sure that this is entirely true. From 962-1806, Germany was united as one nation called the "Holy Roman Empire" whose borders correspond to those of modern Germany. |
True.
But the swedish, english and french kings etc. had power over all their kinsmen. The german emperor had none. That's one of the main reasons why the swiss and dutch got a state on their own. And also why german (deutsch in german) as a language had a few, though minor, offspring languages like dutch (in the netherlands we say "nederlands"), swiss (schwyzerdütsch though not official), and letzeburgs (luxemburgs official !!!). Bavarian had almost developed into a (official !!) langauge off its own too. The german emperor (and with him his court !!) couldn't force himself upon his empire as a leading and trendsetting factor, whether political or cultural.
Last edited by Vrank Prins on 26-06-2001 at 15:45
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bertje121
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Netherlands
Jan 2001
time: 06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by JMarks
I'd go for the Greeks, the Romans, and the Americans, but being as your only supposed to vote once, I go with America, the acme, the zenith, of Western Civilization. We also saved Europe's behind in two World Wars and have a considerable economic and social influence (much to the shagrin of other nations, and myself at times) the world through. Ergo, USA gets my vote, though I would suggest everyone here study Latin and Attic Greek for fun.
Long live the Americanization of the World! Hellanization was but the first step! Rominazation the next!
Ioanes |
You're pathetic.
Big influence on Western Civilzation? Haha. Thats funny. I thought the United States was MADE out of EUROPEANS.
After all, Americans are nothing but a bunch of Europeans (and of course others, but mainly Europeans).
The Americanization is something of the last few decades. So you cant speak of a big influence like the Romans (several centuries!).
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quote:
Originally posted by JMarks
the Romans, and the Americans, |
I said this a long time ago, America is a country and not a Civs. Because All of us have ancestry somewhere else. Think about this for a moment, if your ancestry is North Africa or most of Europe, not all, but most of Europe you are part Roman. So if all of us part Roman got together today (2001), we might still be one of the larges Civs in the World. Maybe number 3 right behind the Chinese, and Indian of India.
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JMarks
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formerly known as the artist
Mar 2000
time: 05:14
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quote:
I said this a long time ago, America is a country and not a Civs. Because All of us have ancestry somewhere else. Think about this for a moment, if your ancestry is North Africa or most of Europe, not all, but most of Europe you are part Roman. So if all of us part Roman got together today (2001), we might still be one of the larges Civs in the World. Maybe number 3 right behind the Chinese, and Indian of India. |
It depends on one's definition of 'Civ'. If you mean completely original, then no one gets that prize, not even China. A civilization is, well, a culture based around cities, often families, and, for the most part act 'civilized'.
Besides, any civ is naturally based on a nation, a city or collection of cities, that, more often than not, share a culture. If America (USofA) cannot be a civ, then niether can the Romans. They were a nation, no? Besides, being American is not being European. Nowhere near. We have a cultural base in Europe, sure, but we are far from being European. African-Americans (I hate that term, I really do. It somehow implies that they aren't true Americans, which they are, but I'll have to use it to make the point) are Americans, would they be considered Roman for your sake? Not to bash you, I just love debating what being an American means with fellow Americans.  
If anything, its an ideology with roots in the Romanized and Hellanized world of Europe.
Oh and a little side note, I like the Roman version of slavery better than the American version (brought to us by Africa, and supported by Darwin, thankyouverymuch). That was truely an equal-oportunity placement if there ever was one.
Ioanes
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Vrank Prins
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Haarlem, Netherlands
Sep 2000
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by JMarks
Long live the Americanization |
YECH I've never liked MacDonalds, and my boss is trying to look smart by screaming out a lot of anglo-american managements crap, ridiculous.
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by JMarks
I'd go for the Greeks, the Romans, and the Americans, but being as your only supposed to vote once, I go with America, the acme, the zenith, of Western Civilization. We also saved Europe's behind in two World Wars and have a considerable economic and social influence (much to the shagrin of other nations, and myself at times) the world through. Ergo, USA gets my vote, though I would suggest everyone here study Latin and Attic Greek for fun.
Long live the Americanization of the World! Hellanization was but the first step! Rominazation the next!
Ioanes |
Saved our ass?
In the WW1 you intervened on the side of your debtors to prevent them defaulting on war loans.
In WW2 you came when Russians were already in Poland and probably shortened war for a month or so. Let's leave the strategic bombing out of this....
Now, look at your location. Sioux Falls. How come? Let's suppose that a tribe (nation, civ, whatever) of Siouxes lived there, and hey - here comes a cream of European crop, armed to the teeth, zenith of the Western Civilization. 100 years before Stalin and Hitler, you had slavery and massacred Native Americans en masse.
Don't bring Darwin into this, as I understand, half of America has to listen to creationist theories in the school so that the Believers are not offended.
Let's face it, you're Europeans squared, our best and worst characteristics simply maxed out.
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21-06-2001 22:18
I dont think its fitting to consider India as other.
Some of you historians can fill me in on this one
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