20-06-2001 03:03									#1
	Distribution of Resources and Terrain Put an end to popups!

One of the keys to gameplay is the proper distribution of terrain and resources. This is how I think it ought to be done.

Terrain should be distributed so that it is more realistic and natural. None of this mosaic of all different kinds of terrain such as a tile of desert here, a tile of jungle here, then a tile of mountain, etc. Instead there should be big mountain ranges, large deserts, large forests, etc. This improves gameplay for several reasons. Large deserts, mountain ranges form nice natural boundaries for one thing. Another is that it forces cities to spread out more since wastelands become natural obstacles to infinite city sprawl. Another is that terrain become more important for combat and strategic control especially with strategic resources.

Now it is critical that resources themselves are distributed in such a way that many of them are not found near cities but in wastelands. In real life, many resources are located in wastelands. You should also be forced to re-explore terrain not located near cities to see if those wastelands contain newly needed resources. Thus, a lot of fighting might take place in wastelands and away from cities.

	20-06-2001 03:42									#2
	Support Apolyton

I agree with you totally.

Distribution of terrain is VERY important, and not only should mountain ranges provide natural borders, but also, obstacles, a horseman unit should not be able to cross mountains, nor across swamps, rivers should also be both lengthened, and widened, like the nile, amazon, or mississippi rivers, which provide perfect borders.

And the recources are also bery important to distribute properly, but I think Firaxis already has this handled, they have said in the civ3 site that recources will be clumped in curtain areas, and never appear in some areas at all, and also that after a while, some recources will disappear and become unusable, so I don't think we need to worry about recources.

	20-06-2001 08:02									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think it would be super if Firaxis would devise a evolving topographical generation program to create a realistic terrain pattern. Imagine the program starting out with massses deployed in tectonic plates, then during the generation phase smashing these plates around to generate mountains and highlands, simultaneously drawing rivers and creating sedimentary lowlands and even having phases of glaciation to scratch lakes and valleys on the face of the land masses. At the end a program plotting the probable motion of air currents, temperature zones and moisture zones would fill in the biosphere components of the terrain. Oh well, this is just a pipe dream.

I hope that the editor will allow placement of resources so that it will be possible to design historical scenarios.

It would be nice if instead of just a symbol representing a fixed modifier to the productivity or trade of a square the value of the resource would be variable, i.e., a coal resource might vary in number from say 10 to 1000, determining the yearly value of the resource and how long it would last. There could even be different levels of resource exploitation.

	20-06-2001 15:34									#4
	Remove this text

Why shouldn't a horsemen unit be able to cross a moutnain range? Cause he's on a horse? What, is this mountain range a sheer wall of stone 1000 feet high? Have you ever heard of canyons? Valleys? Passes? I recall a certain fellow who marched his army through the alps during the winter. Hmmm?

Don't be silly please. the map is a generalization showing the average distrubution of resources. Its not a roadmap.

And those rivers you talked obout aren't very wide in their natural state. Theres these things called fords? And theres this really neat idea called swimming. You do realize that native americans didn't bother to discover bridge building before settling in what we call louisianna.

	20-06-2001 15:53									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I quite like the Docs idea. I presume that they will just find another way to recreate a decent looking world. But they are supposed to be more realistic, I found the default civ2 generated maps to be horrible and straggly.

	21-06-2001 08:33									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

OK now, which one of us has the brains to design such a program?

Oh, Oh, Oh, Not Me! Not Me!

	21-06-2001 18:38									#7
	Got spare money?

then you should see a map i'm making.

I'ts not finished yet, and it still needs a lot of work.

i'll attatch it as soon as i connect at home.

	21-06-2001 23:11									#8
	Re: Distribution of Resources and Terrain Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by polypheus Terrain should be distributed so that it is more realistic and natural. None of this mosaic of all different kinds of terrain such as a tile of desert here, a tile of jungle here, then a tile of mountain, etc. Instead there should be big mountain ranges, large deserts, large forests, etc. This improves gameplay for several reasons. Large deserts, mountain ranges form nice natural boundaries for one thing. Another is that it forces cities to spread out more since wastelands become natural obstacles to infinite city sprawl. Another is that terrain become more important for combat and strategic control especially with strategic resources.

Well, I didnt mind the civ-2 style mosaic terrain-distrubution - but, at the same time; I see your point, and I dont mind some changes in this area. I think most of the screenshots released so far, proves that the terrain-distribution will be differently tweaked then in was in Civ-2. But Firaxis shouldnt go that much further then they have done in these screenshots. It shoudnt be taken to the extreme.

I think the monotonous continental-sized chunks of extreme terrain-types one could sometimes found in CTP, was just a little too much for my taste. Although one can point out some few exeptional earth-examples in amazonas, sahara & himalaya; the Civ-3 jungle, desert & mountain counterparts should be just as few & exceptional, and perhaps also smaller. The same goes for swamps, hills, glaciers - I dont want to see chunks of these, the size of 6-10 whole city-areas put together.

• The four most dominant terrain-types should be oceans, grasslands, plains & forests. The other, more extreme terrain-types should appear comparably less frequently.
  
• Deserts & jungles should appear in chunks of anything from only 4-5 tiles to max 3-4 city-areas put together. The latter is more rare though.
  
• Mountains and hills should be distributed in smaller chunks; from 1 tile to max 15-20 tiles put together. Not more.
  
• Swamps should be distributed in chunks from 4-5 tiles upto max 1-2 city-areas. The latter is rare.
  
• Glaciers & tundra should never appear near the equator, more near the poles, or then completely surrounded by mountains.

	22-06-2001 02:50									#9
	Suffering from ads?

In Civ2 if you did customizable map you could select "3 Billion Years Old" as an option. It would give you the large patches of the same terrain together.