20-06-2001 10:34									#1
	Cheating Ai Remove this text

i was just playing the WW2 Scenario as the Turks, beating on the Russians with my ally, the Axis powers.

there is a few russian bombers in the red sea, NOT ON A CARRIER, so i say "hey, theyre harmless until the next turn", so i start building fighters but dont BUY them.

the next turn, all the bombers attack me.

the bombers from over the ocean refuled somehow and attacked me.

then Spain joins Russia in attacking me. SPAIN. all of a sudden im bombarded with Spanish CRUISE MISSLES. cruise missles for christ sakes. i checked the intelligence, they didnt have combustion or advanced flight.

We've already debated that they shouldnt have rockets if they cant fly, (wherever that "Techs without prereqs" thread went), but without combustion or advanced flight, theres no way they had subs or carriers.

how did the cruise missles hit me?

I know the AI cheats. Its just a cover up for cheap AI coding.

	20-06-2001 11:16									#2
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Man you really got squired. Unless maybe the bombers died right after they attacked. Could this be true? Were any of the Spanish allied or there own cities even near you? If so they probably refueled from there. I doubt it though on both things you just flat out got fawked up the arse. I try not to use profanity because it offends some people. Although, some times I can't help it.

I think it's kind of lazy on the programmers part to enable cheating for the AI because they didn't spend enough time on developing a good AI.

	20-06-2001 15:36									#3
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heh. I've seen the computer do that. I've also watched fighter units spend four turns without landing or dying because they were fighting people. The ai is a lazy cheater. But thats the way it is. And thats the way its always been.

And shame on you for letting them reach the level of aircraft while still retaining their independance. You're just asking for a nuking.

	20-06-2001 22:19									#4
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k7, its the ww2 scenario, and im the turks.

the Spanish were not first on the adgenda.

(i took over the entire middle east and was working through africa)

	21-06-2001 02:25									#5
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Hah. Thats no excuse. ;-)

They shall all drown in lakes of blood.

	21-06-2001 03:34									#6
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If cheating is needed for a better AI it's oke for me as long as it's not too obvious.

	21-06-2001 07:37									#7
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IMO there are 2 kinds of cheating, one is AI handicap allowing them cheap units, wonders, more gold etc. The other is blatant cheating-breaking the rules of civ such as non refuelling bombers.

I don't mind AI handicap. In effects it allows the AI to build more, compensating their stupidity with numbers. It is easy to defend(you are almost always stronger and larger than the AIs), and don't disturb the gameplay.

But blatant cheating or rule breaking should be banned. It is irritating and greatly disturb the gameplay. For example, it is very difficult if not impossible to counter AI's 'bribe cheat'. And the AI's ability to chunk out 30 SS structurals in a turn-from nowhere, is really making the space race unattractive and thus imbalance the gameplay.

Firaxis cannot be excused for difficulty in moulding a good AI. Time and again civers have expressed the pathetic AI as no.1 priority for improvement. Allowing AI cheating is just showing that they have not done a good job. AI may be poor at micro managing their empires, but better choice of advance research and better AI teaming up should be within reach of programmers. This is the very least hope of mine.

	21-06-2001 12:43									#8
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I tend to be of the opinion that the AI should be made as hard as possible...without cheating, because it is so so annoying when you witness cheating, such as the first post stated. Make the AI agreesive if you must...but not a cheater..(well as much as possible considering the genuine AI programming constraints).

	21-06-2001 14:58									#9
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I don´t like the cheating AI too. Aggressive AI - yes. Make the AI to be clever, learning from human, make it hard to win... all that would be fine. But I will hate to learn for Civ3 again wich rules are not make for AI. (Civ2: AI triemes never sunk, things was build ore attack in the same turn when tech discovered, the cruise missles/aircraft cheat, and many, many other things.)

But I´m afraid, they will cheat again to make the game harder instad of making a better AI.