22-06-2001 08:21									#1
	The Importance of Borders Full PM-box? Change here!

Borders should be a very valuable thing. I'm talking about the national borders seperating Civs. I mean my favorite additon to SMAC from Civ2 were the national borders. Not that it was a great system though.

When any of your units are your own national borders they shouldn't cause any unhappiness under any government.

Colonies should expand your borders by a lesser amount than cities.

Things such as fortifications or fortresses (with a unit in it) in the same spot for many years should increase your borders by a small amount (except fortifications or fortresses in other Civs borders).

Borders should also be able to expand out a little past the shoreline into the sea.

When offering a treaty there should be an option "Allow this Civ to enter nation at will with any unit, allow this Civ to only have non-military units enter nation at will, or don't allow any units enter your nation from this Civ" you will select the option for both Civs and the other Civ will have a chance to accept or make counter offer (vice versa for being offered a treaty)(Allies have no restrictions on national borders this option wouldn't be available for an Allied treaty). When other peacefull Civs (you have a non-military units only enter nation treaty option) decide to enter your national borders with a military unit they will automatically be declaring war on you. The AI should be smart enough to know what borders to enter with what untis and to know when they need to enter a nation (even if war is declared). This way you won't have any unwanted units in your territory.

National borders should be available in all stages of the game (i.e. Modern, Ancient, Medieval, etc...). Although, they should become more refined as time goes on. Not by more cities being there either, but by the fact that a better borders system would come into play after an "era" was over and a new "era" has started.

With resources (as well as many other aspects) being involved in the game borders will become very important. That is why I think a very detailed borders system should be put into place. I know some of this or maybe even all of this won't be implemented because of whatever reason, but some of it really does need to be put in the game.

Last edited by TechWins on 22-06-2001 at 08:29

	22-06-2001 08:45									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Yes, I'd like to see borders implemented too. It's just annoying when some Johnny come lately third rate civ sneaks into my country and sets up a city. Then I've got to reroute my forces and risk angering his allies triggering a broader war in order to remove him, when it should be he who earns the wrath of civilized nations!

	22-06-2001 11:13									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: It's just annoying when some Johnny come lately third rate civ sneaks into my country and sets up a city. Then I've got to reroute my forces and risk angering his allies triggering a broader war in order to remove him, when it should be he who earns the wrath of civilized nations!

That wouldn't happen with the border treaty option.

	22-06-2001 19:34									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hello?

Have you read any of the civ 3 previews or looked at the official website?

	22-06-2001 20:10									#5
	Re: The Importance of Borders Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by TechWins Borders should also be able to expand out a little past the shoreline into the sea.

I think this is the case. If you remember the mini tutorial thing that was available at the firaxis website, you will notice that as the culture increases, the borders increase, including out into the sea!

	23-06-2001 00:41									#6
	Suffering from ads?

Well the only major gripe about borders that I have from SMAC is that other civs can drive yours back. That is totally unrealistic.

I like the idea about the auto-declare-war thing, but there should definitly be a pop-up box when you attempt to move your unit into someone elses territory that reminds you that you are, because other wise drastic mistakes could be made.

	23-06-2001 01:27									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: there should definitly be a pop-up box when you attempt to move your unit into someone elses territory that reminds you that you are, because other wise drastic mistakes could be made.

Yes, of course that would have to be there. It should say something like "proceed and declare war or cancel action" if you don't have a treaty that would enable you to go into that civs nation without declaring war. If you were able to get into that civs nation (at war, allies, certain treaty) there wouldn't be a pop up box.

	23-06-2001 07:51									#8
	Re: The Importance of Borders Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by TechWins Borders should be a very valuable thing. I'm talking about the national borders separating Civs.

Yes I agree. I would also like the border to be permanent that is when one of the Civs build a city next to your borders they loose the three tiles on your side of the border. (In CTP 2 I do this all of the time to steal some territory from my enemy.)

quote: When any of your units are inside your own national borders they shouldn't cause any unhappiness under any government.

I agree

quote: Colonies should expand your borders by a lesser amount than cities.

They will not increase your borders per/Firaxis

quote: Things such as fortifications or fortresses (with a unit in it) in the same spot for many years should increase your borders by a small amount (except fortifications or fortresses in other Civs borders).

No one from Firaxis has said anything yet.

quote: Borders should also be able to expand out a little past the shoreline into the sea.

Yes

quote: When offering a treaty there should be an option "Allow this Civ to enter nation at will with any unit, allow this Civ to only have non-military units enter nation at will, or don't allow any units enter your nation from this Civ" you will select the option for both Civs and the other Civ will have a chance to accept or make counter offer (vice versa for being offered a treaty)(Allies have no restrictions on national borders this option wouldn't be available for an Allied treaty). When other peaceful Civs (you have a non-military units only enter nation treaty option) decide to enter your national borders with a military unit they will automatically be declaring war on you. The AI should be smart enough to know what borders to enter with what units and to know when they need to enter a nation (even if war is declared). This way you won't have any unwanted units in your territory.

Firaxis has said there will be more option. I can not remember if some of your question is in or out.

quote: National borders should be available in all stages of the game (i.e. Modern, Ancient, Medieval, etc...). Although, they should become more refined as time goes on. Not by more cities being there either, but by the fact that a better borders system would come into play after an "era" was over and a new "era" has started.

As soon as you build the temple you will have a border. Other city improvement will expand it.