22-06-2001 23:57									#1
	The Ultimate Pacifist challenge Enter the AD-FREE zone

Has anybody ever tried to win by spaceship or conquest without owning any offensive units (including NONE)? Only diplomats,settlers, caravans, and later galleons, engineers, spies and transports are allowed, and any military units found in huts or obtained through bribery or gifts must be immediately disbanded without further movement. It seems impossible, of course, even after the first wave of barbarians has missed the capital, but then so did OCC on Deity+5. There certainly are turns in many normal OCC games in which the capital is 'defended' by diplomats or caravans - I recall seeing Ribannah mentioning several near escapes in her logs - so taking ultimate advantage of the AI's tendency to balance the game is not unthinkable. One could probably count on a continuous stream of gifts due to one's permanently pathetic position on the powergraph, and a few alliances might allow wars to be waged on our behalf. Democracies could pose a problem to conquest, and I guess it might get a little sticky after the spaceship was launched...

	23-06-2001 00:57									#2
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This has been done.

If you're looking for a challenge -- how about no units at all? Found a single city with your initial settlers in 4000BC at your starting location and never build or own any kind of unit: no caravans, diplos, settlers, nothing. No exploration, no expansion, no trade, no defense. Deity, 7 civs, raging hoards.

	23-06-2001 01:39									#3
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If you're not careful, EOL will try it, and then you'll have to too.

	23-06-2001 01:55									#4
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Well, KrazyHorse, it wouldn't be hard to do on an edited map.

	23-06-2001 23:59									#5
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quote: Originally posted by samson Well, KrazyHorse, it wouldn't be hard to do on an edited map.

Ouch . It would certainly be easy on that OCC comparison game where you start on the island inside an island inside the island which is a ring of mountains. Nobody can touch you until paratroopers and the AI wouldn't be getting them in time.

	24-06-2001 00:31									#6
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Hehe.
Or the one where you start on a single square island in the middle of 4 whales. That would work, too.

I guess my point is: Peaceful is not a challenge; it's the easy path to victory in SP.

	24-06-2001 04:56									#7
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Somebody did this a long time ago when this was a challenge on the Spink board. he said he juast gave the AI whatever it asked for.

	30-06-2001 10:54									#8
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R U Gregor?

	30-06-2001 11:36									#9
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gee if you guys are doing this you msut be really bored, hanging out for the next incarnation in Civ 3 ???

wow still reeling from the fact you can win with no units !!!!!!

	30-06-2001 17:42									#10
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Hey Gp that was me. on the spink board that is. he has it up as David White, not Makeo though. That was a long, long time ago.

	01-07-2001 02:51									#11
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Shoot, I didn't realize or had forgotton that was you. I do remember asking you how you did it and you said you just gave in to AI extortion.

	02-07-2001 02:27									#12
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This would be EASY to do if you started on England or another island and created many diplomats and fortified them on your shores so that no one can attack until the advent of Amphibious Warfare.

Then, you would just have to concentrate on researching Spaceflight before your enemies research Amphibious Warfare.

	02-07-2001 09:54									#13
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It would be hard to research space flight, before other civs research amphibious warfare, esp. if you have one city. Real hard indeed.

	03-07-2001 10:20									#14
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diplos/spies were not allowed in the Spinks challenge