24-06-2001 11:41									#1
	Multiple effects for buildings Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The thought occured to me a couple times over the past while, that buildings such as factories and power plants, and I'm sure nearly all types should have more effects than just their standards; eg happiness effects as well. Here goes: a factory would have the potential to increase happiness with people getting jobs and all that, but just the same, it would also increase overcrowding, by drawing people to the cities from the countryside, and conditions would tend to make people unhappy. That is, until some sort of SE-esque option for allowing labor unions came about, then this possible -1 happiness could be made content. As for power plants, a nuclear one could make -1 happiness, and solar +1, I could go on with all sorts of building options, but I think the points been made. Thoughts on this?

	24-06-2001 12:40									#2
	Got spare money?

No, I don't really like it all. It would make the controlling of unhappiness to easy and too complicated. I like the idea of one effect per city improvement.

	24-06-2001 14:00									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Thoughts on this?

Crazy.

You are effectively asking a game to model real life. Real life is made up of a near infinate number of varibles!!!

You are also making assumptions about social interaction, ie Labour Unions. You maybe right, but many would disagree. Often it is simply the old cliche "horses for courses", ie different situations have different causes etc.

Last edited by Sean on 24-06-2001 at 14:06

	24-06-2001 14:04									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

"horses for course"? Never heard that one. Is it a kiwi thing?

	24-06-2001 14:10									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

KrazyHorse,

What ever could you mean?

"Never mind their form; just gimmee a horse that can run in the rain!"

	24-06-2001 16:25									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

No, I dont like multiple-effect city-improvements.

One of the great things about the Civ-series so far, is that you always had a overviewable under-the-hood notion on what each and every city-improvement & terrain-improvement input actually added to the overall city-output. Therefore each added improvement felt much more meaningful and understandable.

- This is why I am against Puplic Works, with hidden/complicated terrain-improvement calculations.
- This is why I am also against the SMAC multiple-benefit base-improvement concept.
- This is why I prefer graphic + number feedback as much as possible, before using numbers alone.
- This is why (then forced to use number-feedback) I prefer simple integers, instead of fractions.
- This is why I prefer blocky 50-100-150% benefits, instead of fractional 5-10-15% benefits.

Keep it simple stupid (the KISS-rule) from the players point of view - thats what I say.

Last edited by Ralf on 24-06-2001 at 17:23

	24-06-2001 20:10									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

well, marketplaces/banks/stock exchanges had dual effects, they increased gold output, and luxury output.

thats as bout as far as i wanna go into it :-P

	24-06-2001 20:29									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX well, marketplaces/banks/stock exchanges had dual effects, they increased gold output, and luxury output. thats as bout as far as i wanna go into it :-P

Hmm. Always an exception from the rule.
OK - lets say: Dont the push the dual-effects any further then they did in Civ-2.

	25-06-2001 22:58									#9
	Support Apolyton

So, is that a resounding "NAY"?

	25-06-2001 23:22									#10
	Got spare money?

Loads of building have multiple effects by their very nature. Factories increase production, and increase pollution. I would not like to see a lot of buildings have effects to increase realism at the expense of a decent game, like the factories affecting unhappiness, but in some cases, it can be used to great effect.
To take two examples from CTP and a CTP mod:
-Security Camera, cuts down on crime, increases production but increases unhappiness also.
-Castle, Cuts down on crime (fear of torture chambers) and increases city defense like a city wall.

These two work very well in the game, the castle as a dual-effect for good, but at a high cost, as castles took ages to build, and the security camera as a balanced effect, so you have to make sure the city is stable enough to warrant building it. It makes micromanagement a little more in-depth, and I like it, but not excessively