26-06-2001 08:17									#1
	"Black Box" AI Civs Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Due to the overwhelming complexity of a game like Civ3, I fear if the AI Civs can manage it all. However, there is a simple solution which I propose. It is called the "Black Box" AI.

The best analogy is the AI players in the game "Railroad Tycoon" (RT). In that game, the AI built up its rail network and even occasionally fought trade wars with you. However, if you recall, the AI railroad company in RT did not manage all the details of each and every train and all the logistics involved. Instead, the AI's railroad simply was a "black box". You could see the rail network but not the individual trains of the AI network moving around on it. The only time you saw any "details" of the black box is when you fought a trade war in which case it tells you want the AI railroad is shipping to/from the station you are fighting over for control.

Civ3 can easily have formidable AI Civs, if the AI Civs are "black box" like the AI of RT. This would mean that the AI would grow and develop using realistic statistical models but would not be micromanaging all the details that a human player must deal with.

Yes, "black box" AI is the way to go!

I am curious to see what people think especially those who have played the original Railroad Tycoon and know what I mean by "black box" style AI.

	26-06-2001 08:24									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I haven't played Railroad Tycoon so I'm pretty skeptical about the "black box" AI.

	26-06-2001 08:26									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

A lot of people will complain that this will be cheating by the AI. And of course the main problem with the AI, conducting warfare, can't be black box because the player can watch a lot a AI movements.

	27-06-2001 04:03									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Paul L A lot of people will complain that this will be cheating by the AI. And of course the main problem with the AI, conducting warfare, can't be black box because the player can watch a lot a AI movements.

The key is for as many aspects to be "black box" as possible. Thus the development, expansion, and growth of the AI Civs would be "black box" just as it is for the AI railroads of "Railroad Tycoon". Obviously certain things such as warfare cannot be "black box".

Simply put, whatever can be simplified (or bypassed) for the AI should be done. Leave the tedious micromanagement to the humans who can handle it.

	27-06-2001 04:33									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

tell me if i get this right.

you want the AI to be able to not micro-manage, and just be "given" crap?

sounds like civ 2 all over again.

	28-06-2001 01:52									#6
	Jihaaa Support Apolyton

OK, as a part-time researcher I have thought about computer AI also.

I have been thinking about Artificial Neural Networks (ANN), specially Kohonen Self Organizing Maps (SOM) would be interesting.

The problem is just what the AI should be able to know and how to handle missing knowledge. But oh boy it would be fun to make a real SOM that adapts over time to your playstyle. And so forcing you to improve your play over time too.

Finally we then could train our own ANN A.I.'s first and put a competition on who trained the best one

In neural networks it it's easy to make different ANN's by just having adifferent starting values. (One could even have nationdifferenses ala SMAC)

Damm, why wasn't math my major so I could do this myself...