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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by yin26
It's a slippery slope to try to convince your wife that computer games are anything other than a waste of time, primarily for two reasons:
1) It's not time you spent with HER (though some couples actually play MP and LAN games together, if you can imagine that!);
2) Given #1, there's absolutely nothing in it for HER, even in terms of her husband's career/education/social development, etc.
Having said that, I think certain games absolutely CAN be a mental exercise. Chess, for example, is supposed to make various thought processes far more acute, so why not some computer games (I don't think FPSs fall into that category, but who knows?)?
Of course, you can play a game simply to become a vegetable. But I rather enjoy looking at various game mechanics and asking: "How close is this to real life? Can I draw parallels? Or is this just a fun puzzle to tweak with certain predictions in mind?" All of that is higher thinking in one form or another, and the fact that is comes in a FUN manner should in no way lessen its value.
But human beings (and, historically, the United States) in general has always looked at entertainment as anti-intellectual. Do you remember the Maypole of Merrymount by Hawthorne? In that, he writes about the early English settlers who dared celebrate in the forest by dancing around a Maypole as being harshly persecuted by Cotton Mather for being "lawless and lewd."
That same basic view is held of PC gamers...as slackers "wasting" precious time and resources better spent on something "meaningful." But more and more, particularly with games like Virtual U., games are being viewed as a potential tool for learning! In the case of Virtual U., a number of universities are even using the game for staff / student training.
What does this say of Civ? Well, I can pretty much tell you that if France had used Civ 2 to develop its foreign relations, we'd all be swimming in a sea of nukes by now. Oh, and there'd be a lot more cities. I mean, a LOT more.  |
Interesting - i guess im both a game player and a tad of a puritan.
I enjoy reading history and my game playing is an extension of that interest - which is why i dont have much truck with the "its only a game" approach - civ2 is immensely satisfying as an historical game - no, not as a recreation of what happened where and when, but as a riff on great historical themes and conflicts -
the cunning of reason in history, the conflict driven pressure for technological progress and political-social change, the emergence of social forces from their apparent opposites (monotheism out of polytheism, philosophy out of mysticism, environmentalism out of industrialization, communism out of capitalism, tyrannical govt forms out of democracy) the interplay of foreign policy and domestic politics, etc.
Ive reached the point in playing (mediocre deity player) where the details of gamey things - fairly artifical strategies, micromanagement, etc overwhelm the historical "fun". At this point playing the original game i no longer learn about history, only about playing Civ. Thats the time to turn to scenarios, other games, and, yes, reading books. 
LOTM
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yin26
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This space reserved for Darkstar.
Apr 1999
time: 14:14
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It's fascinating to me how varied people's interest in computer games can be. All I know is that as I become busier, I demand more from my games in terms of letting me get straight to the strategy and not fiddle with slow load times, horrible manuals, non-sensical gameplay, etc. I want to get lost in games...not hope my games get lost.
But when I was younger, I'd pretty much suffer through anything to get to the "good stuff" in a game. Of course, that was before game companies had the option to send the finished product over the telephone AFTER they had your money.
Oh, there were returns aplenty back then. Perhaps 2 out of 10 times, the game wouldn't even work on my system. Back it went for an exchange. Now that I'm in a foreign country that doesn't support such a liberal policy, I'm far more careful...alas, the joys of a bygone era.
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dennis580
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I have to totally disagree with everything Yen has said. As mor and more information has come out over the last several motnhs by interest in Civ III has gone thru the roof.
With the complex bargaining table, and with a diplomacy that looks to murder Civ II's, and with 16 playable Civs(all they need to do is nail the AI. This game looks like it will go toe to toe this holiday season with MGS2 for GREATEST GAME EVER MADE.
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yin26
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This space reserved for Darkstar.
Apr 1999
time: 14:14
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quote:
Not that I'm assusing Yin of this, because he's had this opinion for awhile now. |
Hey, Theben! 
No, I assure you the timing of my thread has no relation to Firaxis' announcements (or lack of). As you said, my opinion has been pretty rock solid for 3 years...I'm quite happy if Firaxis keeps all the good info to itself until it can confidently and fully explain features, etc. This "Well, we don't know how it will work yet, but BE HAPPY" stuff is actually quite unproductive in my book.
On the other hand, I think if they had anything really interesting to say, they would have. We've likely been told most of the important changes or some form of them anyway. If I'm wrong, and if Civ 3 is released with some surprising and ground-breaking elements, I'll be the first to happily give the game a chance.
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SerapisIV
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Hartford, CT, USA
Feb 2001
time: 00:14
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As much as I don't want to admit it, KH is right, everyone I know is into pirating software, whether its games, M$ products, or MP3 (same deal). I agree as well, I want to support Firaxis, also I want a mint copy of the game, one that will be upgradeable and patchable, something that is questionable with pirated copies.
When I lived in the dorms the last few years, there were some kids from Hong Kong and such Pacific Rim cities, they'd open up large 200cd CaseLogic books, filled to the brim with CDRs of every possible software you could think of, all with keys too. Pirating in the western world is the least of Firaxis' problem, I guarantee Asian and Eastern European piracy is 100x worse.
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28-06-2001 01:55
then I proberly wont buy it, it could also be because I'm out of money the day they will release the game 
)
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