26-06-2001 10:18									#1
	Anybody planning NOT to buy Civ3? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Based on what we know and have seen (which, admittedly, isn't much), is anybody here leaning toward NOT buying Civ3? I suppose the rational response is: "Too early to decide." But I get the feeling some people might have made up their minds one way or the other already, and I'm interested in those of you who plan (at this point anyway) NOT to buy Civ3. Please give your reasons.

As for me, I will say that I'm definitely in the "wait and see" mode. Many, many months ago when we started the List of ideas for Civ3, I was sure this would be one game I'd pre-order. But to be honest, something just doesn't "feel" right. I haven't explained why, I understand, but Civ3 has gone from a "Must Buy" to a "Prove Yourself First" game for me.

Am I alone here?

Outside of the game itself (and, again, we don't know much about it yet), I think part of the problem is I'm just tired of the same gameplay. If you take all the hours I've played of Civ 1 and 2 and put them toward study, I probably could have earned a Ph.D. somewhere. So when I look at Civ 3, I just keep thinking: "This is going to be essentially like all those other countless hours. Fun? Not sure. Predictable and tired? Most likely."

As I've said before, Firaxis can't really make an entirely new game since they'd alienate a proven and loyal audience. I understand that and am not complaining. On the other hand, without enough innovation, Civ 3 will be more like an expansion pack than anything else. Most people will want that. Most people will get that. Most people will be happy.

Perhaps I'll be the odd man out, but perhaps it's also time to move on? Geez. I think I finally understand Sid!

	26-06-2001 10:49									#2
	famous last words Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't plan to buy it straight away. I prefer to wait and see if its a dog or not, and bugs have been patched.

But I suspect if all my multiplayer buddies get it and like it, I'll have no choice then but to get it within days of release

	26-06-2001 10:50									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Some negative thoughts there Yin....makes me sad really, but i get your point. "Been there, seen that, done that...."

quote: If you take all the hours I've played of Civ 1 and 2 and put them toward study, I probably could have earned a Ph.D. somewhere.

Well....i feel somewhat the same, but i have the ability to be a fataliste when such thoughts occur...it really helps!

Conclusion: I'll buy it anyway!

	26-06-2001 11:56									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes. I hadn't considered multiplayer (can you blame me?). However, if Firaxis somehow manages to make an amazing MP component to the game, that could really tip the scales in favor of buying it. I, for one, would want a silky smooth MP process...not something that can be hacked to work well. And the entire aspect of MP'ing would have to be addressed with great care so that an MP experience feels and plays well within a reasonable amount of time. Simultaneous turns, I think, would also greatly add to MP.

I don't mean to be negative, but I am just a bit tired of the Civ formula, and nothing so far suggests A) A true Civ 3 or B) An amazing Civ 2.5 I realize, of course, not everybody has played the game as much and might really welcome most anything. I'm that way with Heroes of Might and Magic, for example. I totally missed 1-3 (well, I picked up late with 3). So for me, I look forward to the upcoming #4 even though the vets may well be saying: "Enough already! Quit kicking a dead horse!" Actually, I feel that way about Might and Magic (the RPG, #6 was great, #7 was o.k., and #8 got deleted)...which needs to do something REALLY new if they want to coax my money out for the 9th edition.

	26-06-2001 12:43									#5
	Re: Anybody planning NOT to buy Civ3? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by yin26 If you take all the hours I've played of Civ 1 and 2 and put them toward study, I probably could have earned a Ph.D. somewhere.

Now to my pain. I played so many hours AND I got a Ph.D. in the meantime. Do not ask me how, and - no, it's not 'Doctor of Civ" title

NOw all of you stop arsing around and admit that you're gonna queue outside the shops the first day it gets into distribution (at least those of you who have not pre-ordered it). I also feel a bit of saturation at this point, but we've been salivating over this title for quite some time so any restraint on the release day is highly unlikely....

	26-06-2001 14:14									#6
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Yeah, I squeezed out a Masters degree from UCLA (the fools!). That last push up the ladder to a useless Ph.D. in English Lit, though, was too much. So I moved to Korea to do wild and crazy things.

I have NO doubt that Civ 3 will sell like crazy. The pre-orders will be off the charts. I'm just saying *I* won't be in line. I'm strange about stuff like this...

	26-06-2001 14:43									#7
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Hehe, I never cease to be amazed by the miracles of Anglo-American education. People finish their doctorates in Literature, History and Physics only to take 3 months crash course in accounting and end up as chartered accountants.

	26-06-2001 14:49									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I am doing a PhD, I am involved in medical research (a biochemist by degree) but will probably stick with what I am doing; the idea of becoming an accountant sounds quite unpalatable.

As for civ3, yeah, I will probably buy it on day of release, unless there is something incredibly nasty looking with the game that puts me off in the meantime, which is probably highly unlikely.

Some of you are so cynical about this, but that is probably a good thing, makes you think about what is really going on with the game.

	26-06-2001 15:08									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I am going to wait and see. SMAC/X is Civ 2.5 to me, so Civ 3 must have sufficient innovations over it for me to plonk down my money.

	26-06-2001 15:11									#10
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I'm definitely going to wait for reviews from places which are generally reliable or have proven to think like I do in the past i.e. not PC Gamer or similar FPS addicted sources. If they are glowing then I will take the plunge and buy. Otherwise I'll be hanging back to see what the regular Apolytoners think.

	26-06-2001 16:12									#11
	Remove this text

There were a lot of games I was interested in to buy the past year or two and I've bought non of them. (I think SMAC was my latest addition)
I'm veey interested in civ3, even if it essentially would be a civ2.5, if only because I've fond memories of the previous civ games.
But I'm afraid I won't buy it unless it would be really innovative and to be honest, I don't see that coming.

	26-06-2001 16:24									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think I will buy the game, and since I live in Norway I can wait and see, because the game most problaby willl be released later here.

Another thing that make me think I will buy Civ3 is that everytime new information has been released, I get this...good feeling! But when it has been some time since last piece of information has come, the feeling begin to disappear...

Oh, I will buy the game, if the reviews are good, maybe if they are just mediocre too.

	26-06-2001 17:30									#13
	Got spare money?

I think Firaxis has been trying hard to explain that it's not easy creating a whole new Civ game. To make it feel completely different, yet stay the same, is very difficult.

But I feel that Civ will be a lot different than Civ2, I think at first glance it will seem quite a bit the same to Civ2, but once you start getting yourself into the game a bit, you'll start to notice that it's quite different and also really good.

Some of the features are really good, and they appear to be solid parts of the game, CTP 1 and 2 had a few new features, but they weren't solid or huge in the game.

One of the new features of Civ3 that I think will be one of the biggest changes is the resources.

Imagine it, it's the very first turn, you have no resources in your visible area, so you feel you must move the settler around a bit, you find some horses, you now have to ponder to yourself, if horses is a good enough resource to use for the beginning of your game. And then, you have to build a road to it, and then you have to make sure that road stays there. And that's just a tiny beginning of that feature. So the fact that you REALLY have to think differently compared to Civ2, right at the beginning is showing Civ3's potential to be a really good new Civ in the Civ series.

I'm not worried, I got sucked in CTP, but not CTP2, I just stopped caring when CTP2 was being made. But I trust that Sid and his team know what they're doing, and it will be a good game.

	26-06-2001 19:01									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I am leaning towards NOT buying the game. A game would have to close to perfect for me to buy it right now (I am also nearing completion of a PhD (Geoenvironmental Engineering)), and I have some worries about certain elements of the game (culture, leaders, limited stacking, ai). We have heard so little about the ai (or if it is customizable), the combat model, etc. I have also grown weary of the genre itself.

I will likely play the game vicariously through posters at Apolyton.

What would make me buy the game is if people find the ai civs using smart tactics, the new elements work well, you can't just roll to victory once you have the lead, and if the game includes some kind of "short game" option or scenerio, that would also help.

We'll see, but I am skeptical. We might just find a lot of bells and whistles (read: graphics).

	26-06-2001 19:13									#15
	Remove this text

I might not buy it. Or rather, not for myself. My sister might find it in her xmas stocking, and then I can hear from her if it's worth it. My apprehension is mostly based on the grief I get from the Marchioness for playing CivII. If Civ3 is better, I'll be in big trouble - "Just one more turn..."

	26-06-2001 19:38									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

When I first got my computer, I would buy a game every month or so. Eventually I realized that was a waste, because I would fork out a lot of money for something that would have a shelf life of a month of playability (seems I am easily distracted with all of the new and shiny things that come out...)

So for the past couple of years, I will buy one game and play it ad nauseum. Last year it was 'Pharaoh' which I am still playing one-an-a-half years later on a (semi) regular basis.
This year it was CTP2 - and before you start groaning, I decided to hack into the files and make my own changes. It took me about 4 months and a lot of playtesting, but I have gotten the game to do a lot of things it couldn't before and (I at least) find my setup to offer me a very challenging and unpredictable game - besides the challenge of creating my own setup was actually an enjoyable experience, and I learned a lot from it.

Civ3 will probably be the game for the next year, but I will definitely wait until it goes on sale at Best Buy or CompUSA (which usually is the case for all games in the first month of their release) But the genre is also starting to grow long in the tooth for me. I do not spend the amount of time playing a computer game that I did a year ago. I will play for about an hour at a time too (no more 6-8 hours at the computer anymore)

	26-06-2001 19:40									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm repeating myself, but quoting from a different thread (reusing things must be ok, according to Firaxis habit ):

Civ III doesn't seem so far a main overhaul, and I'm afraid it will be a great miss: my opinion is you can already see the consequence on E3 and previewers opinion, where they mostly seems to ignore and dismiss Civ III as a minor sequel.

I bet only a very limited players population will note the game: I still hope we will enjoy it, but mass market will look to others, most "state of the art" game.

I own a car I enjoyed a lot, but now it's becoming old and I'm looking for a replacement. I liked the company of my current car but, guess what? They have the same model of car, just tweaked for the fourth time. Enhanced? No, badly aged!

What was very good 6 years ago is out of standard now, no matter how much you can modify the original model: you must start with a new design and concept.

Looking at recent E3 Apolyton news I feel bad taste: more and more the turn base strategy is ignored, the RTS seems to be the only product line able to attract reviewers and (mass) players attention.

The excessive secret around the game fundamentals left me stoned: they are at 85% of work done, but not ready to show anything official?

I'm ready to change my mind and beg Firaxis pardon, if game will prove a masterpiece, but actually no, I'm really in "wait & see" mode. I'm spending my time with the old (but well supported by my old hardware) Jagged Alliance tactical squad game. I had great hopes for Civ III, so I'm ready to buy it if not quite sub-SMAC level of gameplay or a main Civ II with tweaks.

Isn't around a quote like "when God wish to punish us He do happens what we praise Him for?"

We praised for another Civilization. Probably one time too much.

	26-06-2001 20:25									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

Gonna watch and wait. If I see it has as many patches required as SMAC did, I'll pick it up when the "revised" version is available.

	26-06-2001 20:32									#19
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I sure as heck won't be buying Civ3 till I know I have a few weeks of light work to kill. No matter how great or how mediocre it is, when I get it, I'll be playing it for at least 2 weeks solid before having a social life again. I know better then to let myself get near Civ when I have work. For that reason, no preorders or rapid purchases until I know I can kill time with the game, sometime around January when it finally comes out (hopefully).

	26-06-2001 20:34									#20
	Support Apolyton

i plan on buying it as soon as i can afford it.. i havent seen anytihing to dissapointing yet, actually i think they are doing a good job..

	26-06-2001 21:07									#21
	Got spare money?

I am buying it as soon as possible, although I never pre-order.

Even if it's bad, Firaxis has branded me like a steer. I'm the dream consumer.

	26-06-2001 22:07									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

i am pretty sure that i will buy it shortly after it comes out. I see no reason not to . From what has been announced i feel quietly confident about the game, as long as they don't try to do too much to change the game.

Continuing on the education point. i am studing A Levels at the moment, but still am old enough (not by much though) to have play civ 1. aaahhh, the memories

	26-06-2001 22:26									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

Of course. Since when has Sid let us down?

I think Civ 3 will be a bigger step over Civ 2 than Civ 2 was over Civ in terms of features. so that alone will get my £30.

	26-06-2001 23:44									#24
	Tired of ads?

What can i say. . i'm with Seeker. . i'll buy it the SECOND that i can. i'm very much looking forward to it.
civ2 wasn't a major overhaul from civ1. . but i'm still playing civ2 7 years later. i havn't gotten tired of it. civ3 will be richer, more fully developed, and will last that much longer. i won't pre-order, but it would take LONGER to get to me that way. . but i certainly will by it asap.

	26-06-2001 23:57									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Grim Leaper, I feel honoured you mentioned me in you signature.

Haphazard, I don't think Sid was heavily involved in civ2 and neither do I think he was in SMAC or civ3.

Re civ3, maybe someone else this said before, but I think Firaxis is in a bind. They can't change much to the civ concept without killing the reason for its success, in essence its simplicity. Idem when it comes to adding features, you risk making to game too heavy to digest, except for the veterans. (personally I don't mind complexity, but Firaxis needs to think to of its less experienced people as well)
But neither can you afford to leave too much of it the same, at least not if you care about gamers.
Not bringing out another addition to the series would be unacceptable for civers and undesirable because Firaxis is a commercial firm that needs to keep its bottom line in mind.

I'm certainly curious to see how it will end...

	27-06-2001 00:46									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

As for me? PRE-ORDER . What? Did you really expect anything different? Sid is GOD!

	27-06-2001 00:59									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by LaRusso Hehe, I never cease to be amazed by the miracles of Anglo-American education. People finish their doctorates in Literature, History and Physics only to take 3 months crash course in accounting and end up as chartered accountants.

That's strange; physicists make more than accountants, and I've yet to see an unemployed physicist with a Ph.D.

	27-06-2001 01:34									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm diffently going to buy the game no matter what on the day it comes. I don't care what the previews say, it just doesn't matter to me. Actually wait there would be one thing stopping me from buying it, if it was over $50 I would just wait until the price dropped.

	27-06-2001 02:27									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I will pre-order.

	27-06-2001 02:42									#30
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by joseph1944 I will pre-order.

Well, I wont do that, but I will buy it instantly over the disk, without waiting for the reviews. I said that the weeks before CTP-2 came out, but then I changed my mind. But, with Civ-3 its different - I am very confident so far.