26-06-2001 16:57									#1
	Is there a "one city" strategy? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I think if I could just narrow down the basics by using only one city I might get a better handle on the game.

Is there a way to play using just one city?

I would like to play that way for several short games. How do I set the game up for a short game?

Thanks.
sboog

	26-06-2001 17:33									#2
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http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ.htm

	26-06-2001 18:47									#3
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Thanks, Dave. I went to the site you suggested.

However, it looks like a more advanced kind of thing than I had in mind.

To tell the truth, I just want to keep it very simple for awhile. I am more interested in learning than I am in winning at this stage.

I thought staying with one city would be a good way.

sboog

	26-06-2001 18:56									#4
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sboog - if you're looking to ease into the game, try one city at chieftan level. You should be able to follow Paul's general outline of infrastructure and trade and not have to worry too much about the AIs. If you're just trying to acquire a feel for the game and the effects of improvements, wonders, and technologies, the one-city game is a good way to do it. The game will go much faster than a normal game because you have fewer cities and units to manage.

	26-06-2001 19:07									#5
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DaveV has the right of it, sboog. Try to follow the Paulicy - I would suggest in King or Emperor and you will find just what is important about the Science race - you must have heard the vets talking about their SSC (Super Science City) well OCC is the epitome of SSC management without any distractions - once you can manage an OCC then move on to a perfectionist style game with say 6 to a dozen cities one of which is an SSC ...

You could always try ICS - but that isn't exactly what you asked ...

	26-06-2001 19:45									#6
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and it the computer gets frisky you can pull dow the cheat menu and wipe him off the map to continue your learning.

	26-06-2001 19:50									#7
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OK. I just printed out the Paulicy (except for all the comparison games.)

I'm going to give it a try.

I may fall flat on my you- know- what, but I am sick of playing the tutorial. Would you believe I have not gotten beyond that! Because when I begin a game on my "own" I am lost.

Why is this game so hard for me??? I'm not stupid. But I feel strange when I read that people learned to play this when they were 7 years old.

Anyway, maybe this OCC walkthrough will open some doors.

Thanks.
sboog

	26-06-2001 19:57									#8
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quote: Originally posted by sboog OK. I just printed out the Paulicy (except for all the comparison games.) I'm going to give it a try. I may fall flat on my you- know- what, but I am sick of playing the tutorial. Would you believe I have not gotten beyond that! Because when I begin a game on my "own" I am lost. Why is this game so hard for me??? I'm not stupid. But I feel strange when I read that people learned to play this when they were 7 years old. Anyway, maybe this OCC walkthrough will open some doors. Thanks. sboog

Oh believe me we have been there, remember all the good advise you get here comes from experience which mostly comes from a good but kicking you took somewhere. Take it slow and set up the game at a low level and got use to moving units and building roads and fortifying and as you get experience (but kicking) you too will become addicted,

	26-06-2001 22:43									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

sboog, good to hear from you again. I picked up this game about the same time you did, and I've been struggling with it as well. Here are my thoughts so far: the game has tremendous depth, but maybe too much. It seems as though many of my moves do not have a direct bearing on the outcome of the game, but are merely things I "have" to do. This is one thing I don't like: cycling through all the units each turn. I should be able to select each unit that I want to move, and then end the turn, but this doesn't always work.

I think that I'm tending to get bored when the game gets tedious as I just described. With such a limited knowledge as I have of the tech tree, etc, it's difficult to know what I SHOULD be doing. Instead, I often end up just accepting the recommendations of my advisors on what to build or what advance to pursue. The bottom line is that rarely do I feel any excitement as I progress through the game. Mostly it just feels like I'm moving units for the sake of moving units.

I realize that I need to get past this way of thinking. I also realize that I need to suffer through it as a means to gaining the knowledge I need to really enjoy this game. I'm just not sure if I'll get there any time soon. At some point, I'm hoping to experience that "one more turn" excitement that I see so much about. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I'm just not cut out for this sort of game. I hope that's not the case.

I think I may try the idea of a game with fewer cities, or even a OCC as has been described here. Perhaps if I can "see the light" using a smaller empire I will catch the fever for a bigger game. Good luck!

	26-06-2001 22:50									#10
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another thing that speeds the game us is to automate all the sttlers and the cities, and just leave one city to build manually

	26-06-2001 23:30									#11
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rwprice, what is "wrong" with you and me??? I keep wanting to love this game,too and say "oh please, just one more turn."

So I tried playing OCC following the strategy I printed out. But I don't know enough to know what to do as the instructions are for someone more advanced than I am.

For example, it says research Bronze Working first. I did. So I could go for Colossus - which takes 61 turns. Achkkkkk...

Then it says choose Monarchy to research next - but that was not a choice until later. (I was trying to go by the OCC strategy reference table.)

It was still more fun than playing the tutorial (which I play over and over and still don't feel like I can be on my own...)

But all 20 or so pages I printed out are for someone who knows what to without having their hand held. I get lost in between the spaces!

And another thing, in the bit of this OCC thing I tried, things happened from an opponant - but I could not tell why or how. There was no written explanation. And the graphics didn't convey to me what really happened.

In AoE I can see 8 archers attacking my 3 cavalry - and see the fight and hear the wounded cry out. But Civ2 seems to let one warrior icon represent lots of warriors.

Let's keep trying. I want to be at the point when Civ3 comes out that I'm standing in line at dawn to buy the game.

sboog

	27-06-2001 01:41									#12
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sboog, I know what you mean! Like you, I'd love to be totally addicted when Civ3 comes out. I do think you'll enjoy it a little better, though, if you start a new game from scratch. Just keep on expanding and trying out different things. Although I'm still struggling, at least it's a little more fun than doing the tutorial over and over.

You mentioned AOE, which I have but haven't really played yet. At times, when I've been most frustrated with Civ2, I've thought about going to AOE for awhile. My big gripe there, though, is that it seems there's no time to think before getting destroyed. At least the excitement factor seems to be there. How would you compare the two games? How would you compare Civ2 to chess (Assuming you're a chess player as well)?

	27-06-2001 01:53									#13
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When I played my first game of civ, I was lucky enough to be placed on a continent all by myself, and the other 2 civs fighting each other on the other side of the world.
I was left to build roads, deal with unhappiness in my cities, find new places to build, and so forth. eventually I launched my spaceship, having never had relations with my neighbors.

That game inspired me to do more, and I learned to deal with having enemy civs knocking at my door, and other distractions.

If you like, I can get you a saved game like that, and you can play without the big distractions of enemy civs. make sure your email address in your profile is up to date.


On another note, Paul's OCC guide is really meant for vet civ players. guys who have the poster on the wall and reference it so often, they almost have it memorized. using it on chieftan level leaves you with a LOT of time feeling like you're behind on wonders because it's really designed to be played at emporer or deity.

if you can't get a game started without some aggresive neighbors, you can edit the game.txt to add the option of 1 civ per game. Play by yourself!

but playing with just one city isn't much fun unless you're experienced otherwise. having a continent to yourself is much better to start with

	27-06-2001 03:56									#14
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Father Beast, I would love to try a game with a whole continent to myself. I don't know where our email addresses are, but I am sure I gave mine when I signed in.

rwprice: Comparing AoE and Civ2 : AoE is fun! fun to think about, fun to watch, and there are endless opportunities to learn about each civ and units and campaigns, maps, etc, etc. True, it is not turn based, so if you are real slow, the AI is going right along building and getting ready. But if you are playing RM you can start on Nomad, and the computer (AI) does not build up so fast. It is not always a "relaxed" game, but there is excitement. If you have the game, I urge you to at least play through the Egyptian campaign (tutorial) which unlike the tutorial in Civ2, is fun and not tedious. Each scenario builds your grasp of the game. (If you have Age of Kings, it is the William Wallace campaign that is the tutorial. And it is wonderful.) And the maps and buildings and graphics are all delightful.

Civ2 is probably deeper, but so far, I don't love it like I do AoE. But I am trying. If I could just get the hang of it. I know there is a pot of gold inside it - if I could just find it.

As for chess, that is the greatest strategy game of all ages! Just the feel of the chessmen in my fingers, gives me a glow.

Now back to Civ2.

sboog

	27-06-2001 06:02									#15
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One way to get a continent for yourself is selecting the WORLD pre-made map, in options select "choose opponents", then make sure that they are far away. For instance If you are the American you could choose the Japanese and the Babylonian, and you have the whole American continent at your disposal!

caralampio

	27-06-2001 07:32									#16
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I remeber my first few games of Civ1, when I was just learning to play. It all seemed very complicated and many things (such as building roads) I never did. What I do now is to try and set goals for me to reach at each stage of the game, i.e. early on get huts and go for a government, go for trade so I can build wonders faster etc. Or if your at war go for army techs etc. If you know what tech your looking to get then you can just use the 'goals' option on the tech screen to see what you need to get it. Basically you need to know what goals to go for when - it's probably best for you to learn the game without the other AI civs as distractions first of all.

A good OCC game to try for starters is OCC comparison game 11 - no contact with other civs, so you must focus on bulding up your city. It does take bits out of the game, but its a simple start. Then you might want to try a game ICSing on a world map alone as the Americans (so your doing more things like exploring for huts dealing with barbs etc), or try some other OCC comparison games. This should get you used to setting goals and achieving them with different strategies, so you can move on to dealing with the AIs and fighting wars etc. Keep playing, it may be that Civ is not your kind of game, but I'm sure once you get over this initial learning period you'll realise why it's such a great game. Good luck.

	27-06-2001 16:26									#17
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Dr.Fell, I took a look at OCC #11. I even looked at the list of steps leading through the game. (I have not downloaded the game but I read all of this using the Paul OCC strat site and followed the links for game #11.)

However, I feel it is a bit overwhelming at this stage in my learning.

What you suggested that really sounded like it might be what I need, is when you mentioned setting short term goals and playing up to the goal. That is just what I think I have been looking for and needing. Now if I can just figure out those goals.

Thanks for this super idea! I may start a new thread about short term goals and short games.

Thanks again.

sboog

	29-06-2001 03:11									#18
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I disagree with the suggestion to go to the cheat menu in the event that the AI gets a bit "too frisky". It may contribute to a false sense of security. Instead simply start over and deal with them more effectively the next go.

	29-06-2001 04:25									#19
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i too tried the one city challenge per pauls printout, but found that i was missing lots of fundamnetla tihngs. I have played civ 2 for over 2 years now and stil lcant seme to get my civ to do what others do even following a damn start guide

	29-06-2001 16:19									#20
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Rasputin, what kind of start guide are you following?

I'd like to try a start guide.

sboog

	29-06-2001 17:49									#21
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Another great way to understand the game is to play a multiplayer game.
Sure, you will probably get slaughtered... but do a save every turn. After the blood has stopped flowing and the game is over, go back and take a look at the turn by turn saves and see what the other players are doing. Sure, it takes time... but it is a great way to see what works and what doesn't

	29-06-2001 19:27									#22
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Ming, I don't have the MP version. And even if I bought it now, I don't know where I'd find people to play with. I just checked the MSN Zone. There were 2 (TWO!) people playing Civ 2. There were over 3000 playing AoE:Thc Conquerors.

Question: Will MSN Zone host Civ 3???

sboog

	29-06-2001 19:54									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You just probably caught the zone at a bad time... it's usually pretty easy to get a game there. And yes, I would be VERY surprised if they didn't cover CivIII.

Since you don't have MP... my suggestion won't help you. But it is a good way to see how the better players play the game. So certainly play OCC... it's a good way to learn.

Another thing you can do is get a game started... and save it. Then try playing the game more than one time using different strategies. This will allow you to concentrate on strategy and not be distracted by the thrill of discovery. It will help you see what works and what doesn't. Granted, your strategy should be tailored to the board position you are given... but you will see the differences on what does indeed work.

Keep on civin'

	29-06-2001 21:53									#24
	got a game for you Got spare money?

sboog, I have a game set up for you. chieftan, on earth, as the americans, with 2 other players. mongols and greeks. I was going to email the game to you, but I got a message saying this person doesn't wish to recieve emails through this board. if you post your email address in this thread, I can send it to you

	29-06-2001 21:57									#25
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FB - just attach the save to a post in this thread - then any and all can benefit ...

	01-07-2001 02:01									#26
	here's the game for sboog Get a bigger avatar today!

ok gits, going to see if I can attach this

Attachment: sboog.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	01-07-2001 16:35									#27
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Thanks, Father Beast!

I just downloaded it and will try to get it inside my save game folder - and then PLAY it!

Will let you know.

sboog

	01-07-2001 17:16									#28
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I downloaded, put it in the Civ game folder, then copied it in the folder that contains some saved games.

But when I tried to play, selecting "Load a saved game" the message came: "File will not load. Not a saved game."

What happened?

sboog

	02-07-2001 05:44									#29
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Are you both playing the same version? It sounds like FB's using MGE and sboog's using 2.42.

	02-07-2001 06:04									#30
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Yes, I'm using 2.42

sboog