27-06-2001 23:34									#1
	Unhappiness in Deity-mode Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I don't like Luxuries taxes, because there are so many other things that you can do with your Trade. I usually don't have Luxuries higher than 30%.

If you play Deity mode with no high Luxuries rate, your largest enemy seems to be the unhappiness, terrorising almost all cities. If you have too many of those little Elvises, the food production can become too low. Civil disorders everywhere you look don't give you a really good feeling about your work as a world leader.

What is the best solution to this problem?

My problem isn't the total infrastructure, because I always make lots of roads. If you set the Luxuries tax too high, you don't have enough money to pay for your temples. Of course, temples also cost time to build (and time = money).

Communism and of course fundamentalism help to reduce the unhappiness, but the problem is always worst before the invention of Monotheism. If you don't manage to build the Hanging Gardens, it can be a huge problem.

So, what solutions do you guys out there find the best?

	28-06-2001 06:12									#2
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The best strategy is to build as many cities as you can. Do not let them grow large initially, but have them churn out settlers to found more cities. You can keep luxuries at zero. Build units or temples to keep order, but not much else. Hanging gardens is my #1 early priority. It lets me found a city and work a tile to build a unit or a temple to control unrest. When you get democracy, you can grow to a larger size very quickly. Eventually, you need michelangelo's or JSB to continue growing. Don't forget to research mysticism which improves the effect of temples. The ICS strategy builds these cities close together, but I prefer to build them so that they are a full measure apart.

	28-06-2001 16:53									#3
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It seems that the best way to deal with unhappiness is to stay in monarchy, until you have Fundy,... While being in Monarchy, the best way to avoid unhappiness in your cities is to have 3 armies in each of them (one unit in a city = one content), and a temple,... With this, you can have cities of 5-6 in size,... When a city has reached this size, simply build loads of settlers to build the roads, and the irrigations, (in monarchy a settler eats only 1 food),... I always proceed this way, and I never have more than 30% of luxury,...

	28-06-2001 22:28									#4
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KrankindemKopf,

How to keep happy before Michaelangelo's Chapel? You're correct, the Hanging Gardens is the best way. If you miss out on the Hanging Gardens, you have to come up with another strategy. The MPers out there are probably the best to talk to since all but one player will always lack the Hanging Gardens. Since we're talking pre-Monotheism, Fundamentalism/Communism/Statue of Liberty aren't relevant.

1) Since I like expanding, I usually use a small city/settler approach in the beginning (HG or no HG). 0% luxuries, no temples. If a city is unhappy, make a temporary Elvis, build a settler, and found a new city. (You may need to rush a warrior if the city's so bad off that an Elvis makes it starve.) The cities will be small and unproductive, but with no improvements (except in your SSC) there's no need for loads of cash. This keeps you expanding but you will hit a point where your cities begin with unhappy red (or even black!) citizens. The lack of Hanging Gardens is really going to slow down this sort of expansion - but I think you'll still find yourself expanding more quickly than if you'd built a bunch of temples.

2) A perhaps superior solution is to ditch early expansion in favor of a (temporarily) small number of cities. Keep your number of cities below the riot factor limit and switch to an early representative government (Republic can be discovered very early if you make it a goal). With Republic's additional arrow per trade square you'll have lots of arrows. Therefore even a low luxury setting will keep your people happy. Since you only have a few cities, building temples is not going to empty your coffers nor will it take forever to build them. For an early happy boost, you can build the Oracle (Mystisim comes much earlier than Monotheism). When you finally get Monotheism/Michaelangelo's Chapel, you can resume expanding (if, like me, you wanted a big empire all along).

	29-06-2001 16:05									#5
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people, people! Do not assume you get any wonder!

In MP the chance is big you wont get the happy wonders and you have to manage, so why not pressume from the start that you dont get the happy wonder and dont go for it!

you need to understand that in republic, a lux rate of 40% or more is not so bad. a very low science rate isnt bad either. Try to get a big economical empire ASAP, with building temples, marketplaces, colloseum and banks quickly. put your tax and lux very high at the start. you will have gold to rush buy the improvements, and maybe your cities will even celebrate in deity!

then you slightly pull back the tax rate and maybe the luxery rate when you get further in the game. You will see that with only 40% of science rate, you can still make a tech every 3 or 4 turns. Combine this with caravans to enemy cities, and you can make a tech a turn or every 2 turns. you wont have problems with gettings techs either.

Conclusion: for single player against the computer you can focus on happy wonders. In MP, dont go for them!

	29-06-2001 17:31									#6
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Great answer Species8472... right on target.

MP is a whole different ball game. You have to plan on not getting a happiness wonder.
There is no one strategy to deal with happiness problems. Like everything else, it depends on the cards you are dealt. If I'm playing on a small world, and I know I will probably lose out on the Happy Wonders, I will get some cities as far away as possible from my capital, usually in positions that will lock off my territory... focus on setting up the infrastructure, and fill in with more cities later when I can better deal with the problem.

On a larger world, use units and temples to try to stay ahead of the game, but focus on trade so I can have the money to rush build temples in new cities as I start them. Early republic becomes a much better option.

Or, let somebody else build them, and focus on building a army so you can take the city from them

While happiness wonder are important at Deity, you can win without them.

	29-06-2001 18:03									#7
	Caravans/Freights better than Capitalization? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Everybody's talking about trade routes on all these forums. Personally, I don't use Caravans or Freights often. If I need to finish a Wonder very quickly, I mostly have enough money to buy it.

I do make trade routes with food caravans some times. This is a very fast way to make your cities grow.

Isn't it true that, after the invention of the Corporation, a city in Capitalization mode makes more money than a city making Freights for trade routes?

Please reply on my quote.

	29-06-2001 18:10									#8
	Re: Caravans/Freights better than Capitalization? Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by KrankindemKopf Isn't it true that, after the invention of the Corporation, a city in Capitalization mode makes more money than a city making Freights for trade routes?

It depends...
Using a global trading strategy, you can usually do better with freights if you are moving them to the right cities. Plus, trade routes keep on giving EVERY turn once estabished. And, on top of all that, you get the science bonus for each delivered freight.

	29-06-2001 18:51									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

trading is the only way to buy science ...

	29-06-2001 21:10									#10
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Almost any trade route to an enemy city which demands the commodity which you send gets you three to four times as much cash as the fifty gold you would have gotten from capitalization (especially in the later stages of the game), in addition to the science bonus you receive. In addition, never buy wonders unless it's really desperate. The fifty shields of a caravan delivery to a wonder means that the wonder will cost you 200 gold less, whereas if you'd put the production into capitalization you would have merely received 50 gold, a net loss of 150 gold.

	30-06-2001 20:43									#11
	Trade routes Put an end to popups!

Thanx for your quotes, KrazyHorse & Ming!

Didn't know that trade routes payed themselves back every turn! I thought it was a one-time revenue, but it seems that also very experienced Civ players can learn new things about the game.

I also didn't know anything about the science bonuses that come with the trade routes.

Of course, if a city produces more than sixty shields a turn, it's better to have Capitalization than to make Freights.

	01-07-2001 04:27									#12
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I've never capitalized, but based on the description in the manual/Civilopedia, it's hard to imagine a situation where capitalization would pay off anywhere near as well as freights (and I'm decidedly not a trade route maker, compared to most of the folks here). First of all, capitalization costs 600 shields up front. Thereafter, it only pays one gold per shield. By the time you can build capitalization, you should be able to deliver freights that pay off anywhere from 100 to 600 gp, sometimes even more. They also deliver an equivalent number of science beakers. And then they contribute ongoing trade arrows, anywhere from maybe 3-10 arrows at that point, which in a developed city will mean 6-20 gold or science or luxuries. I've never tried capitalization because it sounded like something you'd never do unless you had no use at all for shields.

	01-07-2001 04:58									#13
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quote: Originally posted by debeest First of all, capitalization costs 600 shields up front. Thereafter, it only pays one gold per shield. By the time you can build capitalization, you should be able to deliver freights that pay off anywhere from 100 to 600 gp, sometimes even more. They also deliver an equivalent number of science beakers. And then they contribute ongoing trade arrows, anywhere from maybe 3-10 arrows at that point, which in a developed city will mean 6-20 gold or science or luxuries.

It costs you nothing up front. The number shown in the city screen ?/600 shows you how many shields you have saved ie. if you decide to change to a wonder this number are already in the box (change to a unit/bulding and you will get half this amount). Every shield not going to support or waste (sort your government out if this is the case) gives you a coin. The trade routes will win for money and science every time. You may want capitalization if either you can't be bothered managing the freights or you've run out of commodities to deliver and don't want to save up food freight's for a wonder (you may wish to set up food routes but this is likely to have been done a long time before you get 'The Corporation').

EOL

	03-07-2001 00:17									#14
	Re: Trade routes Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by KrankindemKopf Didn't know that trade routes payed themselves back every turn! I thought it was a one-time revenue, but it seems that also very experienced Civ players can learn new things about the game.

Before you get your hopes too high, the permanent trade arrow bonus per turn is much smaller than the one-time delivery bonus. As debeest implies, one-time coin & beaker bonus is very roughly 30 to 70 times as big as the permanent per-turn trade arrow income. Still, the permanent trade income is a great reward that adds up over time and is augmented by city improvements.

quote: Originally posted by KrankindemKopf I also didn't know anything about the science bonuses that come with the trade routes.

You get as many beakers of science as you get coins of money. That was one of the greatest revelations (if not the greatest) I learned on this board!

	03-07-2001 00:19									#15
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quote: Originally posted by KrankindemKopf Of course, if a city produces more than sixty shields a turn, it's better to have Capitalization than to make Freights.

No matter how many shields a city is producing, it can still pay off much better with a caravan.

Capitalization makes one coin per shield. Assume that your city is producing 75 shields per turn (congratulations!). A single turn of Capitalization creates 75 gold. Period.

A single turn building a caravan (or frieght) wastes 25 of those shields. C'est la vie. But ship it out somewhere and get your initial bonus. We'll be conservative and say you get it to a moderate size foreign city on another land mass. Say it brings you 150 gold (and you could do much higher).

You're already ahead 75 gold. To say nothing of the beaker boost, which capitalization can't buy.

Add to that the perpetual addition of shields. Say +5 for the good sized foriegn city on another landmass. In ten turns that's another 50 gold, while your city has been able to build anything else for those ten turns (other freights for 2 other trade routes, back to capital, whatever). You are far ahead of that 75 gold you bypassed.

The best thing is that trade route income increases as the two cities grow. Late in the game, it will not be unusual to have a city bringing in over 60 arrows from its three trade routes.

Yes, it can be tedious to match commodity to city, and nail-biting as the ships cross the oceans. But the rewards are tremendous!

	03-07-2001 11:32									#16
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always wondered if any people actually build capitilization in MP i did sometime sin SP but always thought it better to keep buidling caravans