10-08-2000 08:49									#1
	Airbases in OCC? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

This was discussed in another thread, but I felt it needed more attention. Is it cheating? I know it is considered so if you build it on hills in your city radius, but what about using them as forward bases where you can base fighters or bombers as scouts to protect yourself? You can have them all around the world in theory, just as good as cities sometimes, without the liability of one. Do you think this is cheating?

	10-08-2000 10:12									#2
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Fraid so.There is no justification for them.A fighter can protect from the city itself.

The main reason this was voted a no-no was the extra food that hills and mountains produce.No agreement on whether this was intended or not so it is out.But since you don't have to irrigate or farm I think not.Or now I think not.

Now,airbases outside the city radius are a free for all.I guess you could surrounded the land around your city but given the amount of improving to be done in quick order,it's not very practical.

	10-08-2000 11:26									#3
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But it would give you a nice perimeter from attack wouldn't it? And with a few NONE engineers...it shouldn't take that long.

	10-08-2000 14:22									#4
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Why should it be a cheat? You're using the airbases for what they are supposed to be used for. Defense line outside city/country borders is a valid strategy.

C.

	10-08-2000 15:42									#5
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I must say that given the lateness in the day when airbases appear it seems unecessary to brand any use as a cheat -- post radio there is no time for celebration until perhaps after fusion so the greatest gain that could be achieved would be the removal of a one sheaf food deficit incurred by imprudent earlier growth - or have I missed something??

Certainly any use outside the city limits must be legitimate (if probably not cost effective) -- second thoughts - what about an early launch of a 15-1-1-1-1-1 ship you then have some twenty-five years in which to try and prevent an opposition launch - an offensive defence seems to be a good strategy and that might well require advance airbases ...

Good civin'

[Edit for typos]
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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited August 10, 2000).]

	10-08-2000 16:39									#6
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Using airbases for their intended purpose is of course allowed in OCC. You are just not allowed to build them inside your city radius to provide extra food on mined hills or to replace farmland. As SG[1] already said, they come too late to be of much use for that anyway.

	10-08-2000 17:05									#7
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One way that building them outside your city radius would probably be considered a cheat by most, would be if you build airbases on every square just outside your city radius, making it impossible for any enemy air unit (nuke, fighter, bomber, cruise missile) to attack your city. Now granted, this isn't much of a concern for record shooters, since the AI probably won't have the technology yet to really attack with air units... but for those who are just trying to win and it is late in the game, it's very possible that this defensive strategy could be effective.

I for one think this would be considered a cheat... what do other people think

	10-08-2000 17:23									#8
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Is the main thing to remember that we're talking about an OCC game?

If you can't use them for extra food and you can't use them for defensive purposes, then what the heck would you use them for? You're not goint to need advance bases for attacking and taking AI cities.

BTW. For me, this is all moot anyway. For some reason, my version doesn't allow me to build them outside the city radius anyway. Or am I missing something? (Like that's a new happening, me missing something)

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	10-08-2000 19:50									#10
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For a discussion of airbases in general check this out...

http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives...6-3-000349.html

I still like Sieve Too's argumentation! Face it guys, it's a cheat!!!

Carolus

[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited August 10, 2000).]

	10-08-2000 20:31									#11
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Maybe not 100% on-topic, but just to expand my knowledge a little... :

How fast are damaged air units repaired being in an airbase? As fast as in a city without an airport or as fast as an army in the field?
How many times faster does an army regain its full hitpoints being in a city/in the field?
Does the vet status influence the time a damaged unit needs to be repaired?

	10-08-2000 20:45									#12
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well, just read the archived Airbase thread. As for the increased production - that probably is a cheat. As for free railroad, I'm not so sure any more. After all, the landing strips surely can act at least as roads, and for a fully funtional airbase, they should be able to transport cargo to and from the planes efficiently. (maybe they should be free roads )

I personally don't build airbases, but that is because I don't build many planes Too many extra unhappy people even when in their home cities in a democracy. As for building them in OCC, I probably would already have railroads (and farmland) down long before I built one, so as long as they aren't in certain places (ie city hills), I wouldn't have a problem building them.

Never was an issue in my first OCC game. I only saw 1 total AI air unit (ordinary fighter), and i had a fortress on a mountain where a hut archer and a musketeer (and later a cavalry) held off everything the AI had for over 5000 years

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SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

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	11-08-2000 02:47									#14
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When it comes to airbases on hills, uncommon sense is more accurate!

Carolus

	11-08-2000 09:49									#15
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It doesn't have to be on hills, they're just to act as cities without having the liability of one.

	11-08-2000 18:07									#16
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Airbases as intended are just fine, but I would have a problem with using them as a railroad system or a sort of "great wall" around my cities. The game designers could have eliminated those problems by not allowing you to build airbases right beside each other (just like for cities).

	11-08-2000 18:33									#17
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In an OCC, how far are you really going to move units anyway to make a huge rail network? I'm just suggesting scattered ones around so that you can have a secure defensive perimeter.

	11-08-2000 23:39									#18
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In OCC, I donīt build airbases at all. I just build some stealth fighters for patrol and seek&destroy purposes. I donīt need no outposts just because my fighters can handle the huge threat the AI bears... with its cavalry. Or Arty. Or Bombers...

I think, airbases within the city radius are a cheat, because itīs just unlogical that they should produce extra food or work as railroads. Someone wrote that the extra food could be explained by the infrasructure that is needed to maintain an airbase, the argument for the function as roads was that you could use the runways as roads. What the ...!? So you have to think of an airbase that has a runway as big as a map square??? Or the idea of people sowing wheat between the runways trying not get their heads chopped off by off-taking fighters?? Cīmon guys, its a mistake or something that the programmers didnīt remove for some reason, itīs just impossible that an airbase was intended to provide such benefits. And because itīs not imagenable, I personally regard it as a cheat and donīt use it.
But as said about a thousand times about cheats: Everybodyīs free do do what he likes

	15-08-2000 23:13									#19
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Checked out the archive. Clearly, Carolus Rex nailed it - the programmers took the code for a city, and didn't remove enough of it. So you get a city's effects on the tile w/o losing the engineer or gaining city improvement options.

Not entirely unreasonable spin-offs for an airbase. But you should not be able to build adjacent ones, or adjacent to your city.

I'll tell you one thing. If airbases within city limits are cheats, then ship-chaining is a cheat.

The air-defense thing is stupid. Bombers should be able to fly over airbases and cities without landing/attacking. Civ3...