28-06-2001 13:43									#1
	Diplomacy -- How Long, oh Lord? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This is my first game of any CTP game. I'm using the MM2 version (minus the upgrade that was posted just a day or so ago).

So that I could learn the game rules, etc., I set it to Medium Level, 5 Civs (Americans, English, Scots, Arabs, American Indians), next-to-easiest Barbarians, Huge map. I control the Americans.

As it turned out, each civ is on a separate island-continent.

Anyway, we are now at 1803 C.E. (403 turns). We Americans are far, far ahead of the other civs. So I'm beginning to see why all of you play at the Impossible level. But, hey, it's OK. I'm still learning what this game is all about. I'll do the Impossible thing my next game.

Anyway, enough background. My question concerns the diplomod.

I'm aiming for a diplomatic alliance victory, so I've been courting all of the civs since the very beginning of the game, exchanging maps and advances -- and, for the most part, offering a civ 100 gold every time I see that its "diplomatic happiness" icon needs a bit of happiness boosting (about once every 5 turns).

I have been able to establish a Peace Treaty with all of them, and a Trade Pact with everyone but the English. I have never broken either the Peace Treaty or the Trade Pact; neither have they.

The English and the American Indians declared war on each other about 200 turns ago and remain enemies, fighting it out on Indian soil. The Scots and the Arabs evidently don't know that any other civ exists except mine.

The Scots' regard varies between loving and admiring, and they have trusted us Americans completely for about 300 turns.

The Arabs' and the American Indians' regard also varies between loving and admiring, but they remain vigilant, even though we have had a Peace Treaty for about 200 turns.

The English used to love us, but all of a sudden they switched to a "sad icon" and say that my diplomatic actions "irk" them. I don't understand why they changed their regard so abruptly. And even though, for the past FIFTY turns or so, I have given them 100 gold EVERY turn and even threw them a banquet two turns ago, they refuse to raise their regard. Like the Arabs and the Indians, they, too, have remained "vigilant."

I make it a point to keep my ships (I have only two -- a galleon and a carrack, which replaced my coracle and trireme) out of their territory, and my land troops have never left the shores of America.

So, what gives? Why are the English so pissed at us Americans? Is this something built into the Diplomod -- a historical thing or something?

What do I have to do to get them to raise their regard for us? I mean, I've given them a total of 5,000 gold during the last 50 turns -- plus the diplomatic reception (another 500). No effect. They remain unimpressed.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter.

	28-06-2001 18:44									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If you are more powerfull than the other civs (you have more units) try to threat them.

For example offer an alliance if he reject threat them with war. And they will accept if you are stronger than them. So far as I know there are no penalties for threats. Try it. I tried it in my first MM2 game. Their regard for me changed from very low to very high, because I force them to sign theese treaties.

-Martin

	29-06-2001 03:54									#3
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Stargazer:
Take a look at the readme by Locutus in the MM2 readme directory. It's all about how the new diplomacy system relates to gameplay. Basically, if you have muscle (military and eco muscle) threaten and demand your opponents into alliances. Just continually feeding a civ money will eventually irk them off, it's how diplomacy in CTP2 works.