01-07-2001 02:06									#1
	Age of Osman Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A new scenario coming soon...
Although Mathias Koster's Death and resurrection of an empire (shouldn't it be resurrection and death of an empire?) covers the last centuries of the Roman ('Byzantine') Empire, the Osmali aspect is limited, and they are given an unhistorical headstart in central Anatolia which was then part of the Sultanate of Roum (Romania). When I played it at Katapan (prince) level to start with the Osmali never became a threat, being far away from the main theatre of war-the sea of Marmara and the Balkans.
So this scenario is effectively its continuation after the Paleologi reconquest of Constantinople (Nea Roma) and its rapid decline afterwards.

I was wondering whether to start of under the reign off Osman with one city, Bursa, or start under the reign of Orhan with an established Emirate covering north-western Anatolia.

Civs to be included:

Romans (otherwise falsely known today as 'Byzantines')
Georgians
Armenians (now in Cilicia, south-east Anatolian coast)
Cypriots (Lusignan kingdom)
Persians (should they be under Jalayrid, Timur Laing, Shah Rukh or the Ak Koyunlu dynasties?)
Mamlukes
Osmali (Ottomans)

I had thought of including the Serbs and Bulgars, if the scenario is to begin under the Age of Osman literally then they may replace the Georgians and Cypriots-however by 1361 the Serbian and Bulgar Empires break up into principalities-how do I replicate that in the scenario-if given Princepalities (Republic) government can they be forced to change government (perhaps, if they are really under an Empire governement which is of course backwards)?

Barbarians will play the role of Wallachians, Khanate of the Golden Horde, Catalonian state of Athens, Genoese possesions, Venetian possesions, Knights of St. John in Rhodes, the Achaen principality, Anatolian 'Ghazi' Emirates and the Roman Empire of Trabizond.

The map I will be using is the same one I used for Age of Alexius-my one!

Why, you may ask, the rush to edit and release these scenarios?
Well my theory is that when Civ III comes out it is very unlikely there will be as much interest in Civ II as there is at the moment, look at Civ I for example.
What is your opinion?

Attachment: title.jpg
This has been downloaded 226 time(s).

Last edited by Masis on 01-07-2001 at 05:03

	01-07-2001 02:14									#2
	Hey Masis! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Great splash page. Can you convert a bmp file to a gif?

Exile

	01-07-2001 02:48									#3
	Re: Hey Masis! Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Exile Great splash page. Can you convert a bmp file to a gif? Exile

For that I used a demo version of PSP7. It expired months ago and when you try to download it again a 'mysterious' error occurs when you have downloaded about 60-80% of it that obviously stops you from using it again in that way. Is it really worth forking out £90 pounds or so to convert one bmp Title file into a gif format when you know decent people who will gladly do this simple task, if they use a program like PSP7 for other artistic graphical work they do, as it only takes around 1 minute or so to perform the task of converting it into an 87 non interlaced gif format. Give them ample credit in the Readme file of course and also the begining Info Event.

	01-07-2001 04:53									#4
	New Units Suffering from ads?

Here are some of the new units I have selected/made for The Age of Osman scenario.

Unit1: Yeniseri (New Soldier)
Unit2: Serb/Bulgar Infantry
Unit3: Unique unit; Urban's giant cannon
Unit4: Unique unit; Roman Emperor
Unit5: Frankish/European knight
Unit6: Muslim Merchant
Unit7: Christian Merchant
Unit8: Unique unit; Timur Laing (maybe it will become a Persian Shah unit)
Unit9: Unique unit; Osmali Leader (can hardly call him Sultan if the scenario begins with the Osmali's under an Emirate)
Unit10: Italian/Muslim Pinnacer
Unit11: Bombard
Unit12: Mongol/Persian cavalry
Unit13: Osmali Sipa (converted from Roman Imperial Cavalry)
Unit14: Osmali light cavalry

Now for some more...

Attachment: units.bmp
This has been downloaded 22 time(s).

	01-07-2001 20:25									#5
	The descision Support Apolyton

Now it is to be the Cypriots and Armenians who will be replaced by the Serbs and Bulgars. It was a difficult descision and I'd rather have kept them but that shows you the limitations of Civ II (Civ III does not seem to improve this-also keping to the 7 civ limit). It could very well end up as a Multi-Event scenario due to the time span covered-over 200 years-probably divided into a -6 turns interval i.e. every 6 months.
That would make it over 400 turns! Is that feasable in game playing terms? Maybe I could get away with the 200 or so turns itself.

This scenario will be the last chapter in the Rome-Romania series.
The series, including scenarios made by others, will follow this sequence...


Age of Romulus by me (coming soon)
Age of Kaisar by me (coming soon)
Spartacus by Alex Mor
Imperium Romanum by Berne Brosing
Age of Aurelian by me (coming soon)
Age of Constantine by me (new version coming soon)
Age of Arturius by me (new version coming soon)
Vandals! (I remember this scenario being out, got to get the authors name!)
Age of Justinian originally called Rome 443AD by Joaquin Vano Gea, edited by me(new version coming soon)
Age of Heraklius (new version coming soon)
Cross and Cresent by Berne Brosing
Age of Basilius by me
Manzikert by Maciej
Age of Alexius by me
Death and Resurrection of an Empire by Mathias Koster
Fading Lights by Maciej
Moscow: The Third Rome by Michael Dumen
Age of Osman by me (coming soon)

Last edited by Masis on 08-07-2001 at 06:25

	02-07-2001 02:08									#6
	Do it your own way. Enter the AD-FREE zone

There is nothing wrong with a 400 turn scenario. Especially if it's worthwhile. Scenarios being short or long is simply a preference of the individual. Do what feels right to you. This is your creation. It's good to get feedback, but go ahead and make the descision yourself.

Salutations,
Exile

	03-07-2001 01:33									#7
	A site you must view Increase Your PM Length

Take a look to this site - as well as the ones i mentioned in AoB thread...


http://www.panweb.sicap.it/pegasomodels/peg_ita1.htm


... another great site about turkish and non-turkish units

	08-07-2001 06:32									#8
	I Need You! Get a bigger avatar today!

Well, I need your valuable comments...
The 'foundation scenario' is under way, placing the cities etc.
Looking at the isolated Osmali (Ottoman) capital of Bursa I was wondering if the Osmali should start of with more cities under their rule or should they start of with just their capital?
It is something I'd like feedback on as I'd like to know in game playing terms how you preffer it.
You want a challenge or a walk over?

In Michael Dumen's Moscow: The Third Rome scenario the Moscovite Russians start of with just the small village of Moscow before their later expansion. The scenario was excellent and interesting. I wish it lasted longer though. Again, if the Muscovites had started with more cities I reckon the scenario would have lost its challenge edge to it...

	08-07-2001 06:39									#9
	Re: A site you must view Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Prometeus Take a look to this site - as well as the ones i mentioned in AoB thread... http://www.panweb.sicap.it/pegasomodels/peg_ita1.htm ... another great site about turkish and non-turkish units

Excellent!
Pure craftsmanship!
I hope they expand their range of units...

	08-07-2001 06:57									#10
	Some more units Put an end to popups!

These are the units I have further selected/made for the scenario...

1) Standard infantry
2) Armoured infantry
3) Bashi-Bouzouk* (mad man) infantry
4) Sufi
5) Islamic cavalry
6) Unique unit: Grand Master of the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem now based in Rhodes
7) Catalan/Latin heavy infantry
8) Unique unit: Serb/Bulgar Tsar
9) Latin infantry
10) Unique unit: Genoese/Venetian governor

*These were the 'cheapest' infantry of the Osmali, mad men and prisoners released and permitted to carry out any atrocity they pleased...this is not something I savour, but it has to be known and demonstrated in this scenario...

They are apt to change still...

Attachment: units2.bmp
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

Last edited by Masis on 08-07-2001 at 10:17

	08-07-2001 10:35									#11
	The current plan Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Here is the plan for the scenario, if the Osmali are to start of with an established base in north-west Anatolia.
The squares represent the capitals.

Attachment: plot.jpg
This has been downloaded 78 time(s).

Last edited by Masis on 14-07-2001 at 11:28

	08-07-2001 22:09									#12
	Bursa or Yenisehir? Remove this text

Just to know Turkish history more better...

quote: Originally posted by Masis Looking at the isolated Osmali (Ottoman) capital of Bursa...

... Yenisehir ( taked shortly after 1290) was the first Osmanoghullari's capital, not Bursa. Bursa was conquered in 1326 - and Osman was only buried here, as a result of the great masonry works commissioned by his son Orkhan.

When exactly your scen will start? After or before 1326?

PS I got my Ostrogorsky book just yesterday... Need a map?

	09-07-2001 00:05									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

only thing i know about this period is battle of nicopolis as described in Barbara Tuchman's "A distant mirror" I suppose you dont go that far (1398?) if you do you would need hungarians/franks civ.

LOTM

	11-07-2001 04:39									#14
	The Time, The Place..... Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark only thing i know about this period is battle of nicopolis as described in Barbara Tuchman's "A distant mirror" I suppose you dont go that far (1398?) if you do you would need hungarians/franks civ. LOTM

If modelling the scenario from the plot, then the starting year will be 1361 with Bursa as it's capital. The following year the Osmali capture Edirne (Adriana/Adrianopolis).

Made a new Unique unit, the icon of the Virgin Mary, which was shown on military parades and on the last day of Roman Constantinople....ominously it fell of its support and with difficulty-it became heavier-was put back...

	12-07-2001 01:09									#15
	Take a look here... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Byzantine studies' homepage. Check out their art section... terrific!!!

	12-07-2001 03:56									#16
	Scenario made Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Prometeus Byzantine studies' homepage. Check out their art section... terrific!!!

Thanks Prometeus, I have been to that site before and e-mailed Paul as to why the correct term Romaion is not mentioned in the site only to have as a reply that apparently 'Byzantium' was the term used by the 'Byzantines' and why should Taiwan be called the Republic of China....I was not talking about Taiwan......In Mosaics right to the last Emperors of Constantine I New Rome they all all depicted as Great Rulers and Autocrats of the Romans. Romanos Diogenes who led his army to defeat at Manazkert should therefore be renamed 'Byzantinos' Diogenes? These web sites are hardly scholarly!

Made the scenario, a replica of the plot, but certain units designated for the Osmali have not materialised. For example the Sipa and Light cavalry unit requires Sultanate (Communism) to be made available. The Osmali are now under a Sultanate government but these units are not there! The Yeniseri is though, it too requires Sultanate.
Wonder what's happening...
Is it to do with the size of the scenario map and city numbers?

	14-07-2001 11:07									#17
	New Icons Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Here are the selected/made icons for Age of Osman...

Fountain = Aqueduct
Watermill = Dam
Sufi Teke = Research Lab.
Column of Constantine = Colossus
Genoese Tower = Lighthouse
Vlachernai Palace = Great Library
Isfahan Mosque = Sun Tzu's War Academy
Citadel = King Richard's Crusade
'Cannon Gate' Palace = Marco Polo's Embassy
Tower of Samarra = Copernicus Observatory
Jelaludin's Tomb = Shakespeare's Theatre
Conquerer's Mosque = Adam Smith's Trading Co.
Knights Complex = Darwin's Voyage
Osmali Tombs = Eiffel Tower
Selim's Mosque = Womens' Suffrage
Piri Reis Map = Apollo Program

2 New Wallpaper gifs based on Osmali decorations in Topkapi Saray (Cannon Gate Palace)

So?

Attachment: icons.bmp
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	14-07-2001 17:38									#18
	Really nice!!! Full PM-box? Change here!

From good to better things... keep goin' on this way, Masis!!!

PS I created - ripped - adapted -whateveryouwanttocallthis from AoK and Cossacks a couple of units for my Gok blue scenario ( a byzantine tower and an Hagia Sophia " first version" pic ) ... Interested in? Unfortunately, I'm leaving and i'll be back only on Sunday evening. So...

Last edited by Prometeus on 14-07-2001 at 18:04

	14-07-2001 18:11									#19
	Gok preview... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Darn! Can't do attachments on edited post... Awwww, nevermind...

Still a bit unrefined, but i think it's good enough for my purposes...

Suggestions?

( PS I forgot to say in my previous post.... I used Hagia Sophia Ist and IInd version in my cities design also... )...

Attachment: tower1.bmp
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

Last edited by Prometeus on 14-07-2001 at 18:24

	14-07-2001 18:28									#20
	'azzarola!!!! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hmmm... no more than one for post... darn ... ahem, the unrefined "Gok blue" cities.gif.

Attachment: cities.gif
This has been downloaded 69 time(s).

	15-07-2001 05:50									#21
	Haghia Sophia Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The third Haghia Sophia city style is good, take of the turrets from the fourth one though if the scenario is set before the Osmali take-over of the city...
Have you anything in mind to replace the airbase or fortress gif?
There are some Nomad city styles available, have you seen them?

Have a safe journey and see you around on Sunday night.

Last edited by Masis on 15-07-2001 at 06:00

	15-07-2001 13:23									#22
	Osmali era Rich Man people gif. Get a bigger avatar today!

Here is a new gif to represent the rich man people gif, edited from the Romaio rich man people gif...
Playtesting the scenario workings, as the Romans of course, drove out the Franks from the city of Patras but the Osmali are having a field day in Thracia! Trying to keep them seperated from Anatolia via the Gallipolis straits...

Attachment: osmali.bmp
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	17-07-2001 22:46									#23
	Re: Haghia Sophia Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Masis The third Haghia Sophia city style is good, take of the turrets from the fourth one though if the scenario is set before the Osmali take-over of the city... Have you anything in mind to replace the airbase or fortress gif? There are some Nomad city styles available, have you seen them? Have a safe journey and see you around on Sunday night.

Hagia Sophia : thanx for the tip. I'll edit my Bizantine city stile

Nomads' cities: i dunno... for all that i know, only me and Stefan Hartel created a nomadic city stile...

I have no intention to use airbases as i did in Antigonos, but i used this pic to perform Central Asia mud-walled fortress...

	17-07-2001 23:27									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

My nomads' cities style from my very first Gok blue scen. Nomads are Turks and Je-ta - White Huns - Eftalites...

Attachment: cities.gif
This has been downloaded 47 time(s).

Last edited by Prometeus on 18-07-2001 at 02:32

	21-07-2001 10:35									#25
	NICE! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Prometeus My nomads' cities style from my very first Gok blue scen. Nomads are Turks and Je-ta - White Huns - Eftalites...

The Gok Blue and Ephalite city styles are really nice, great work!

Might start updating and release the Age of Constantine first as it is essentially pre-made.

	21-07-2001 11:24									#26
	Quote for the scenario... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I chose this one , do you think it is biased on the Roman side?...

"The plain [whence we are encamped] is deserted, as a result of the flight of its inhabitants to the woods, the caves and the mountain-tops as they tried to flee from what they are unable to escape: slaughter that is inhuman and savage and without any formality of justice. No one is spared-neither women, children, the sick nor the aged...There are many cities in these regions, but they lack the one thing without which they can never be true cities; they have no people...And when I ask the names of the cities, the answer is always 'we have destroyed these places and time has destroyed their names'...What is indeed unbearable for me is that I am fighting beside these people when to add to their strength is to diminish our own."
^^Emperor Manuel II writing to Demetrios Kydonis about being forced to fight with the Osmali Sultan in his campaigns circa 1391AD.

	21-07-2001 20:39									#27
	Suffering from ads?

Perhaps, just a little... Why don't you use a double texts intro? One for every side...

PS A quote for Osmanoghullari

"Who are you, and how do you dare to menace us?" - Yildrim Bajazid Sultan to Timur-lenk embassador, before Ankara's battle in 1405.

	05-08-2001 18:20									#28
	To release or not to release? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The version at the moment only permits the Romans to play. Great if you want to reverse history at destroy the enemies of Romania...
Really though a fully working bug-free version should be made available soon...

Playtested it and wiped out the Osmali! Though I had not expected it even at Chieftain level what with the tough Su-Bashi and Janiseri units to combat...even now the Aegean islands are a no-go zone being held by Italian governors and Latin knights...I shall not bother with Rhodos and its Knights of St. John.
The Catalans were defeated and driven from Achia.
But the Persians are swarming in with their Mongol hordes...
Allied later with Serbia and made war against the Bulgars, they now have the remote north-western region and Wallachia as a refuge.
The kingdom of Georgia was destroyed by the Persian hordes.
A 'global warming' (due to plagued areas left from the Black Death) occured which halted the Roman recovery turning fertile regions into swamps!

Here is a shot of the game mentioned...

Attachment: rom.jpg
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).