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kolpo
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first I was refering here to USSR, Mao, North Korean,... communism so the most radical forms of it I wasn't refering to socialism I like the moderate version of it myself.
I think there is tons of evidence that the USSR was very corrupt. Just go to Eastern Europe(I have been there and have met nobody who didn't said that the USSR was corrupt) and ask the people there what they had to do to get the good jobs, who got them. How much money the party leaders putted in there own pockets. Just look how much more food the party members in North Korea have then the actual leaders. You can judege a government only on the practice and not on the theory, some governments taht sound great in theory are very worse in practice.
I think that socialism should be a separte government based on Swedish socialism(they where for a long time the big excample for many European socialistic parties). But socialism is something completely differnt then communism, communism is one of the biggest enemies of socialism. Socialism defent democrasy and human rights, communism hates it.
Modern socialism in general accepts the fact that capitalism is the best economic system but they want to make it more human or to create 'human capitalism'. So to reflect that should socialism have the ability to put money in social security, ever 2 gold putted in it makes one unha
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kolpo
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first I was refering here to USSR, Mao, North Korean,... communism so the most radical forms of it I wasn't refering to socialism I like the moderate version of it myself.
I think there is tons of evidence that the USSR was very corrupt. Just go to Eastern Europe(I have been there and have met nobody who didn't said that the USSR was corrupt) and ask the people there what they had to do to get the good jobs, who got them. How much money the party leaders putted in there own pockets. Just look how much more food the party members in North Korea have then the actual leaders. You can judege a government only on the practice and not on the theory, some governments taht sound great in theory are very worse in practice.
I think that socialism should be a separte government based on Swedish socialism(they where for a long time the big excample for many European socialistic parties). But socialism is something completely differnt then communism, communism is one of the biggest enemies of socialism. Socialism defent democrasy and human rights, communism hates it.
Modern socialism in general accepts the fact that capitalism is the best economic system but they want to make it more human or to create 'human capitalism'. So to reflect that should socialism have the ability to put money in social security, ever 1 old putted in it makes one unhappy citizen happy. If everyone is content can it make people happy if the city has schools, universities, and all other forms of buildings that socialists find important.
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kolpo
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ooch it should be : ever 1 gold putted in it makes one unhappy citizen content.
and the bad point of this goverment should be military. Most left winged parties are pacifistic, and polution should make unhappy in this goverment(most of them are also quite green)
oh and some other examples of this: labour, Left wing of American Democrats, French socialism, Belgian socialism, some of the green parties in Europe. So in fact the modern moderate left wing.
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To_Serve_Man
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Albany, NY, USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:14
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quote:
If you wish to preach about your Lord and Savior Karl Marx, I advise you to check out the Off Topic Forum . |
aww man, i really didnt mean it to sound as though I was preaching.. sorry if I got carried away, I was just babaling and saying things that came to my head. Hope we can still be friends  ... anyway, over night his thread has become very big. Maybe we should start talking about Civ3 Communism, not what it was or aught to be or why or whatever. I think one of the biggest things Communism should do in Civ3 is maybe totaly negate the Distance from the Capitol deal... if thats still around in those times. I also think it would be an interesting Idea, if one civ could FORCE another civ into a certain government type. (i'm kinda stealing this idea from a few games, mostly Europa Universalis' Catholic-Counter Reform and the Muslems ability to make nations change religions in peace agreements). Not only could this be another form of attack, it can promote Cold War type feelings in Civ3 differently than having a Nuclear Arms race or having several large alliances between players. What does everyone think??
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Dr Strangelove
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My suggestion for communism is an enhanced production rate and/or reduced production costs, reduced trade and income and "suppressed" unhappiness. By suppressed unhappiness I mean that unhappiness would still occur, but to take into account the suppression of dissent it would take more than 50% unhappiness to trigger the possibility of toppling the state. Once the threshold was reached a "die roll" would occur each turn to determine if the state was to fall. The probability would increase each turn that the threshold conditions continued to be met. Once the state falls the new government can't return to communism for 10 years.
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kolpo
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There is an extremely big difference between commumunism and socialism in practice, I will from now on use human capitalism instead of socialism to show clearer the difference(I think that's a beter translation it looks like socialism in Enligh has another meaning then in Dutch). So I think they should be aviable both in civ3.
You can only judge ideologies in practice all ideologies promised an utopia but none of them created it, no idealogy was ever able to be applied in it's purest form because there is still something as reality.
So let's compare real world communistic nations(like USSR and China under Mao) with human capitalistic nations(most european nations like Sweden, Belgium, France... but also Clinton was in fact a moderate human capitalist)
USSR: very weak economy
european human capitalistic: very strong economy some of them have one of the highest average incomens on earth.
USSR: they want to overtrown the governement and start a new non-capiltalistic order.
european human capitalistic: They accept that capitalism is the best economic system and try to get power on a democratic way, they want to chance the current order but not overtrown it.
USSR: failed the people hate it now
european human capitalistic: are in power in many countries get in most countries many votes.
USSR: there evorimental politics where an disaster(they where even worser then Bush)
european human capitalistic: theyb are one of the greennest nations in the world(that's why they don't like Bush btw)
Dr Strangelove, I think that the idea of unhappyness should only work in cities where you have many military units or/and a police station. A soon as the USSR showed that they wouldn't send tanks any more to rebelion in eastern europe revolted they all.
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JMarks
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formerly known as the artist
Mar 2000
time: 05:14
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Uh oh! A communist AND an evolutionist afoot! Whod've thunk?
Concerning Communism as a philosophy, it is fataly flawed in one respect, MAN IS SINFUL!!!! It is not power and money that corrupts man, but man that corrupts power and money! Take away the power and money, man is still sinful, but of course to do that you need some power or money... 
Otherwise it is a perfectly good idea. But if man weren't sinful, so would capitalism, fuedalism, despotism, or any idealism or government.
As far as Communism (as defined by the Russians, aka socialism) as a civ government, I think it works fine. It works better than a monarchy (and some instances a republic) but is infererior to Democracy where trade is concerned. Plus I remember that new spies are always veteran, that way China can pay Clinton a few bucks for some missle stuff....
Socialism, communism, whatever, either way, keep America free. 
You Europeans can do whatever you please, I don't know what kind of constitutions you have. (yeah, I know, stupid American)
Ioanes
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02-07-2001 12:21
I think that ion every goverment you have coruption, just look at any type of goverment from democracy, communism to enything that all have it just the more free you are the more iduvguals do it e.g politcians get bribes by companys or in communism it was the party that got corrupt. In our world ever goverment has corupt people in it some more than others but it's always there.
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