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kolpo
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One of the most unrealistic things in civ2 was that there was no corruption in communism. This while most communistic nations had a very big and very corrupt administration. The USSR was one of the nations with the most corruption ever.
Donate the right money to the right person and you could get everything you want in the USSR.
The real benift of communism looks me the ability to build fast no high tech weapons like tanks(look to WII; the Russians and not the Germans where the tank masters btw), and the ability to control big empires(maybe low chance on revolt when you have a big secret police because people are affraid ?). And maybe also the KGB wonder that makes all secret police and spies veterans?
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To_Serve_Man
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Albany, NY, USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:14
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KrazyHorse, I think this might be the first time we are agreeing. I to hate when someone (probably born in USA or some big Capitialist state) learns the biast version of 'Communism'.... the 'Soviet Communism' that was feared in the 20s and 50s (i think.. in the back of my head theres something telling me thats wrong but oh well). I am a native United States citizen, and learned about the big bad 'Reds' from the Kremlin... but, I did not accept that. I read books, which are available to everyone. They explain what communism is and the ideas that Karl Marx had. ancient has it pretty much summed up. Communism isnt a government.. its, a mix of an economic system and a way of life. Its the destruction of the Money-God, and the disbandment of the Masters. Where man creates for himself, and is not enslaved by the bondage of capitalism! But because we have plagued ourselves with the idea of capital and greed, it becomes more and more difficult to acctual acheive a global communism. Nuclear weapons wont kill humans, the idea of money already started to kill us since the begining of civilization.
And about Civ2 or Civ3 government types.... I posted earlier about wanted to see government types in Civ3 to be like there true form, but I changed my opinion from arguments against. I agree that Soviet Communism is a good model for a government type for Civ3
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:14
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quote:
The only thing is, without the Soviet "Communism" of Stalin, there is no way that the USSR could have industrialized so rapidly (albeit at an enormous human cost) in the 1930s. This is a major historical fact, but it isn't modelled into the game. The military wasn't even a question in the pre-1940 USSR, so where should this production bonus come from? I think that Communism should receive the benefit of building infrastructure at a lower shield cost. |
Yes, but the industrialization came at IMMENSE environmental cost. Basically Stalin raped the land to industrialize rapidly, and since he already had a model to follow, it wasn't that hard. It isn't simply because of Command Communism.
quote:
i think everyoneīs missing a great point here. communism should generate MORE money than any other gov in civ.
after all, you are the STATE, and get your money throught the taxes! i mean, in a market economy, PRIVATE investors and corps builds hospitals, universities and stuff. so:
the more leftist gov = the more control and money for you = the more fun! |
This is a simplistic view. If you take the USSR and the US, the US government made more money through taxes than the USSR did. You may argue that the US was more advanced at that time, fine. However, you cannot argue that in Command Communism there is not corruption and black markets. In fact, the biggest economy in the Soviet Union was the black market.
quote:
Nuclear weapons wont kill humans, the idea of money already started to kill us since the begining of civilization. |
If you wish to preach about your Lord and Savior Karl Marx, I advise you to check out the Off Topic Forum  .
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Juggernaut
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Hint: the flag
Jun 2001
time: 06:14
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quote:
This is a simplistic view. If you take the USSR and the US, the US government made more money through taxes than the USSR did. You may argue that the US was more advanced at that time, fine. However, you cannot argue that in Command Communism there is not corruption and black markets. In fact, the biggest economy in the Soviet Union was the black market. |
well, since the russians were first in space (im sure you americans love to hear about that ), they couldnīt be so behind in the economic matter, right?
ofcourse an authoritarican state suffers from corruption and black markets. did i say something else?
if you think about it, the more liberal a civ becomes, the less important you, as the ruler becomes. so under a communism giv, who is the opposite of liberalism, you should rule much easilier.
in fact, under democracy, you might not even own all your land!
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JamesJKirk
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Dixon, CA USA
Jan 1970
time: 21:14
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I'm agreeing w/ Imran here, the USSR and Soviet bloc didn't exactly hold themselves to any stringent environmental regulations through their industrialization, far worse than western countries even. It'd be easy to find a source that reports on poor air and water quality in the area as a result.
uncle_funk, I don't see why you think that since taxes can be raised more that the govenrment should be economically better off? that certainly wasn't the historical case. And it's not as if 100% of what the average Soviet citizen made would equal what 100% of a citizen of a western democracy made. The tax rate is just a simplification to set how much of your income to devote to income, research and luxuries...
Now's the part where I disagree with Imran:
quote:
It's only 100% tax rate if luxuries are 0, which they normally are in a Communist state .
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I know it was a light hearted comment, but a great issue with economic restructuring in EasternEurope is that the Soviet countries did provide guaranteed jobs, housing, and more generous pension and food guarantees than a free market can.
And one last thing:
This whole topic is flawed, the starter of this thread assumes that "corruption" in Civ means what it does to most people, political corruption, but it's not like some guy is bribing away a little bit of your gold in take, I don't even think that it is set at 0 corruption, it's just a flat rate, to note the centralization of the economy, as was mentioned earlier. I mean it's just as ludicrous to say that communism has veteran spies, or democracies and republics get and extra trade! It's a game concept made for play balance!!!
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Bereta_Eder
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Hey KrazyHorse,
this equation freaked even me out and I am one of the left wing Apolytoners!
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02-07-2001 03:30
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) then communism would offer no benefits what-so-ever, when compared to the other options. I would expect it to be better than nothing....then again a "state of nature" might be better...
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