21-08-2000 20:47									#1
	another rookie question Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

is there a way. to catch a city before it goes into civil disorder.. so that you can take steps to stop it from ever happening?

	22-08-2000 09:01									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

No automated way. You must check every city to see if you'll have population growth and then determine the impact on that city and on the rest of your civ. No it is not fun, and sometimes you miscalculate. Deal with it.
Check the old threads that discuss empire impact. Yes you too can have your head spinning trying to keep track of it.

RAH
Yes it would be nice in CIVIII that you could preview attitude for the next turn prior to ending the current one.

	22-08-2000 09:12									#3
	Tired of ads?

And now you know one of the reasons some of us like to play OCC.

	22-08-2000 09:19									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm not sure I understand the problem. Could it be as simple as planned growth, i.e., build a temple right after a defender/settler? As rah stated, you have to watch each city and plan ahead. Building a coluseum before you need it (civil disorder) might seem extravagant but you gotta do what you gotta do.

And I believe Tom's comment concerning OCC is referring to Shakespeare's Theater. I always found it hard to justify in a "normal" game. In OCC, it's worth its weight in gold.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

	22-08-2000 09:51									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Checking the happy menu can tell you if the next citizen is going cause a problem.

If you still don't know,then hire an Elvis just before the city grows.After,you can see if he can go to work or become a scientist/taxman.

It would be alot better if they something like Rah mentioned or at least a notification that a city is about to gain population.

	21-08-2000 23:06									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

Yeah, Smash, I do check the happy option to see if it's going to be a problem. And I will create an elvis and check back the next turn to see if i miscalculated and can work him. (Getting lazy as i get older)

I always get caught when I build a settler in a city that I'm using an elvis to keep order in, because it shifts the workers after the settler is built and usually uses the elvis to work food I don't need. AND THE FU*KING CITY REVOLTS. Needless to say this one annoys me most of all.

RAH

	22-08-2000 06:23									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

What about when you are going to have a revelution? It is hard to tell which cities are going to go into disorder, unless you jack your luxuries up to 60% until you are done. Any advice?

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Kitana
Shogun of the Japanese

	22-08-2000 06:58									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I hate that re-organization of workers.Move my worker from wine to non-sheild grass..arghh.

1.Revolt
2.Jack luxuries(might as well)
3.scroll thru cities hiring elvi where needed.

Tax rate is a national thing.Hiring specialists is like local government.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited August 21, 2000).]

	22-08-2000 14:51									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

A small point for IamRooky's benefit - a city with a full food box will grow next turn regardless of whether or not there is a food surplus (I may be wrong, but I think it will grow even if there is a deficit) so don't be concerned that the extra Elvis needed for safety first removes your food surplus for the city ...


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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	22-08-2000 15:07									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I always find that a fairly good short term measure is checking your attitude adviser from the menu (F4 i think), any city that is in trouble (imbalance of happy/unhappy people) shows up in red, so you can deal with those problems!! This won't however show a city growing during the end turn phase and going straight into disorder, but it's worth checking that page to catch any changes that may have occured to your empire during your own turn, and it shows all of your cities on the same page so it's much easier than checking every city in turn.

I suppose the only other way to stop disorder is to multitask your brain and check everything all of the time, just hope that you can cope better than Windows NT!!!!!

	22-08-2000 15:28									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Please what is OCC ?
rookie-too, rookie-two

	22-08-2000 16:05									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OCC - One City Challenge!!! You play the whole game with ONE city and only ever have ONE city, and try to win the space race - great fun!!!!

Check out Pauls Definitive OCC Site There is everything you'll ever need to know about OCC!!!

	22-08-2000 17:32									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

But be careful. OCC is VERY addictive!!! And yes, it can be done! Just be patient.

BTW, Mike.doc. I notice you're from Belgium. You ought to go to the General/Community board and add yourself to the list in the following thread:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/H...html?date=03:05

It's a tally of where everyone lives.

------------------
Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited August 22, 2000).]

	22-08-2000 19:52									#14
	Remove this text

One even more annoying thing is when the AI shuffles your workers around so you have a shield shortage!!! Poof, a unit less...

I thought that cities grew only with a food "surplus" >=0? Deficit = no growth?

On building settlers. If I'm about to complete a settler the next turn in a size 2 city that needs an Elvis to keep cool, I put the worker back. If I only get one unhappy face, then the city doesn't revolt when the settler is completed and the worker stays at work. If I get two unhappies I call Elvis again...

Carolus

	22-08-2000 20:06									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

reguardless of how much of a food deficit you have, if the food storage is full, the city will grow. Thats why you can grow to 127 in size using food caravans.

	22-08-2000 20:08									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

My theory on the growth question: if you are generating more food than is required to fill the food box, it will still only fill the box. I think the game remembers the surplus food, though, and you will grow the next turn even if you're not producing a food surplus. I've never tried this with a food deficit. Maybe if the deficit is less than the surplus on the previous turn?

Edit: on the other hand, SCG is probably right. Never mind...
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited August 22, 2000).]

	22-08-2000 20:31									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

More on the food box.

This is what I'm sure about.

i) Any food that more than fills the box is wasted. If you need one more food to fill the box and the city produces a surplus of two, then the extra food is wasted. That's something to micromanage, I dare not speak on whether you should max shields or trade.

ii) The game doesn't remember the wasted food. If you shuffle workers around so you get zero surplus when the box is filled, then the city grows and have no food in the box. If you shuffle workers around and have a three food surplus when the box is filled, then the city grows and have three food in the box.

I'm not sure on the deficit, though. I've always (by habit) made sure that I have a surplus >=0 when the box is full. Easy enough to test, though.

Carolus

	22-08-2000 20:45									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There's an easy way to check for disorder, but it's not a very pure solution:

Set the game option to pause at end of turn. EVERY TURN, save the game (I find this less confusing than trusting the auto-save function).

Don't bother to check for disorder. But if a city goes ito disorder, go back to the previous saved file and try to fix it the problem.

NOTE: If you have many cities and a lot of population, the happiness display can frequently show you FALSELY that a city is unhappy. You go to the city and find out that it is really OK. The cheat I described above is a lot nicer than checking these false unhappiness warnings every turn.

- toby



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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

	22-08-2000 20:55									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

And in MP?

Carolus

	23-08-2000 09:59									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

edit - SCG - great point about giving the AI an obvious (food related) choice for where to apply the new worker.

CR - I think toby's method also works in MP, you just have to have everybody get out and reload!

A tip for the attitude function key screen that helps with all of this stuff -

If you look at the Attitude Advisor ((F4) at the end of your turn it will not reflect changes in the cities that took place that turn. You can reset it by changing your tax/lux rates (shift+T) - (maybe to 0% sci to check your research cost) and then changing it back. This will not prevent problems from growing the next turn, but can help catch obvious problems from having the disorderly cities rotate.

Another tip when you are using multiple specialists - make the Elvis guys first and then leftovers as Scientists and Accountants - that way when you build a settler you don't lose an Elvis and get unhappy.

For potential shield support losses when building a settler - know that the AI will remove a worker from anything that doesn't produce a lot of food regardless of trade or shields or specialness. Grassland will stick, but build a shield cushion by re-allocating your workers to multiple shield producing terrain. Three forests can't be entirely removed, but one iron mountain will certainly get the boot.

[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited August 22, 2000).]

	22-08-2000 22:12									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

here's my two cents. it's a rare situation i'm sure but something to know anyway.

if your city is size 8 with a food box that's full (size 9 next turn), building an aqueduct (rush building) is a waste of gold. the population growth takes place before building does. i found this out the hard way after borrowing some gold from Rah in a MP game. My city stayed at eight and the food box emptied.

	22-08-2000 22:19									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I believe that Sten Shure's method of changing the rates -- to make the happiness screen update for the current turn -- does not avoid the bug in ToT that causes some cities to appear unhappy, even though they appear OK when you go to the actual city display.

-toby

	23-08-2000 02:08									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just in case there was any confusion,I was refering to the happy screen in the city window.Not the happiness advisor.

I don't know about that advisor.You can see your cities and some in red don't show up until you scroll thru each city individually.

Kinda like "This was the state of affairs last time you passed thru your worship"

Could be a bug,could be a feature.


I'm the person they made "preview your post" for.


[This message has been edited by Smash (edited August 22, 2000).]