03-07-2001 00:39									#1
	I'm looking for some tips Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

From all you pros here. Just some basic tips to get started because I suck platypus nuts when it comes to CivII. I mean I can handle Mr. computer but it takes me like 6 thousand years to win. I think I spend too much time building super cities and not enough time beating mo' fo's down.

	03-07-2001 03:56									#2
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I'm no "pro" by any stretch of the imagination, but I can definitly win before 2000AD! I'm sure there are other pro's out there who may find this topic down right boring because they've long since found conquering-mode to be boring on a random map unless they handicap themselves some way. Anyway, here is some non-pro advice (and I assume you play on Deity level):

1) attack as early as possible just when you've enough of a tech advantage. (say Elephants or Crusaders are enough to take on Phalanxs, Warriors, Horsemen) - esp. if you build Sun Tsu's
2) tip huts - to get those free tech/$/units agressively - attack with those free units to knock off as many civs before they even get off the ground
3) build ICS-style til say 20 cities - Monarchy - Trade - MarcoPolo - Hanging Gardens - Sun Tsu's - Polytheism/Monotheism; then switch to conquering mode - pump out Eleph/Crus's + Diplo's + triemes (see http://www.cms.livjm.ac.uk/wittgenstein/davev's_ics_strategy.htm ) When in conquer mode - shift to money - no need to research stuff - no need to build anything but attacking units/diplo's/ships. You can even get rid of some of those garrisons (disband them in a city for half their value in sheilds) as HGs takes care of happiness and garrisons seems to hinder HGs effects.
4) use Marco Polo's Embassy to discover where your enemy is early! (by asking for his map after buttering him up with free tech) Infomation is crucial - knowing right where to land those ships and where to best build them saves a lot of frustration - and almost seems like cheating - but hey - you asked.
5) Save your diplomats for cities on rivers say after knocking off the capitol so that they cost less. Or use them to knock out city walls before attacking - if you attack early enough - the AI won't even have built walls.

I've used many tips found in this forum to improve my conquering game on Deity/Medium Map from 1200AD win down to a 600AD win. Scrounge around in the Great Library.

But hey, most of the true pros here are landing a ship on AC by then - which really kicks butt!

	03-07-2001 06:36									#3
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I find the AI wont give me maps unless i give him the same techs i have so then you lose the tech advantage... You suddenly find Elephants etc charging into your own citys....

	03-07-2001 06:43									#4
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that doesn't happen for me because
1) I don't give away Polytheism or Monotheism period. In fact usually I get maps before I've even discovered them. I usually give away stuff like Trade or Monarchy, etc...
2) I give until they are Worshipful - no more - no less
3) I wipe out civs close to me way before maps anyway - so that my core cities are immune.
4) blitz = no/little chance for retaliation

that isn't to say I've had some losses due to AI elephants, because sometimes I play a little risky: no risk = no reward

	03-07-2001 06:53									#5
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never get that easy an AI ... They wont ever swap maps unless I give them my best techs...

Most Ais i meet are aggresive buggers, they usually meet me before i have time to meet them , by 3000BC they have normally sent their chariots/elephants to intidiate my citys..

I tried ICSing but still couldnt build citys quick enough to get an advantage over the AI

	03-07-2001 07:00									#6
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I'm not sure, perhaps some other pro here knows this, but I think power plays into how readily AI gives away maps. Since I've been ICSing my power is Supreme right from the beginning; lots of units = lots of power (need lots of garrisons anyway for happiness). Maybe that's why I have an easier time. I've never really investigated the phenomena of map exchanges because I've never really had any difficulty achieving it.
Like, 3000BC = 22 turns, and you are faced with Elephants at your doorstep? hmmm... Every game is like this? Small map? or medium map?

	03-07-2001 11:22									#7
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at the latest i have been attacked by AI in 2500BC... usually on med maps whixh is why i now choose large maps (giga is more fun)

	03-07-2001 14:27									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ras, note that Freshman builds the Embassy before the Gardens - not my personal choice, but once you have the Embassy you can get maps easily - in general if an AI has not yet met anyone they will readily swap maps with you - your prblems start when the AIs have started to meet each other and already have alliances/wars going.

	03-07-2001 14:29									#9
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Ras, just noticed that you prefer Giga maps - so do I!! But how do you play them without the Embassy?? On a Giga map if you don't get the Ai to tell you where they are hiding you sometimes have to wait for Apollo to find the little b*gg*rs ...

	03-07-2001 17:19									#10
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Thanks for the info people!

	03-07-2001 19:18									#11
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To get that vaunted tech advantage, trade! Caravans are your best friends - they give you gold, some tech bonus, trade arrows in your cities, and help build wonders. Maximize your trade arrows early, you can shave many turns off your research time. Then use your advantage to crush the AI phalanx with your crusaders or ironclads...

	03-07-2001 23:14									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Whoa! Sorry ScouseGits, Venom and others for misinterpreting my "list" as an order-list; it was meant as an importance-list
Monarchy
Trade
Marco Polo
Hanging Gardens
Sun Tsus

the ORDER in which I always go is:
Monarchy - Trade - Hanging Gardens - Marco Polo - Sun Tsu

I definitly like happiness as early as possible for expansion; but I really find MP indispensible.
(the 3 wonders are usually 5-6 turns appart)

	04-07-2001 04:51									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

this is obviouslt why the AI attacks me so ealry , they damn well know i suck !!! 5-6 turns apart for those three Wonders !!! wow, I got to get a different game

	04-07-2001 05:57									#14
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hmm.. you do know about Caravans helping to build Wonders, right? That's why Trade is so important early on - it allows you to combine the production of many cities; another nice thing is that you can store up your production in half built settlers right before you discover Trade - then switch to Caravans at no penalty. When you have 10 cities size 2 or so pumping out Caravans at 4/5 production and you incrementally rush them , it really is not that hard. Do the math:
Those 3 wonders cost 200+200+300 = 700 shields.
5 cities at 5prod; 5 cities at 4prod = 45 shields / turn
so in 15 turns (5 turns apart), that's 675 shields, not even counting rushing. Rushing means you can achieve these three wonders within 15 turns with fewer cities (which is what I usually do: 4 - 6 cities; 1 per Caravan needed for the WoW).
Some games I'm more patient than others and so I even can have 10 turns between each Wonder; but the quicker I get MP (to know where the enemy is), and SunTsus (to kick the enemy's butt), the quicker I can be done with the whole thing; so I can start another game

Once again, I'm no expert, not even a pro. Some gurus here store up caravans to build an entire spaceship in just 2 or 3 turns!

Another trick? If your really in a bind to get ANYTHING quickly, you can disband a unit (within a city) to get 1/2 its cost in production added as shields to whatever you're trying to produce; you can do this as a kind of cheapo-caravan. I usually disband some of my garrisons after HG's which can speed up production of MP/SunTsu- slightly - or just save a little gold.

	04-07-2001 18:52									#15
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yep know all about the caravans building wonders, still not very savvy with rushbuilding ...

I tried ICS again today and failed miserably .. see my post in Civ 2 general thread...

just cant get the techs quick enough, or maybe my starting positions bad ...

	05-07-2001 11:23									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

Build city walls.

Okay..now that the obvious is done....::Plotplotplot::

DON'T DO ICS!

ICS is no fun. Effecient, yes. Useful for conquest: Yes.

Fun? No.

::Shruggle

Now..... I use a demi-perfectionist strat, move out, then up. Expand sufficiently....(10-15 cities), and max em out. And then I build an attack force and.....chaaaaaaaaaarge!

Of course, I also haven't played in a couple weeks...

	05-07-2001 14:26									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

following Dave's ICS guide and fine it full of holes that experience players may know what to do , but amatuers like myself get lost...

It doesnt say when/where to build first city, it then seems to contradict itself with reference to building citys near reasources but also says build citys one sqaure apart.

It says build warrior first then horse. but i have never had horse by the time i finish the warrior, do i just build settlers then...

Big gaps in wha tto research , like do i go for horse or monarchy first..

	05-07-2001 16:21									#18
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I ususally play 2x2x, so to 1x1x players this won't really apply, but I place my capital on shielded grassland or plains with a forest/production special or ocean/trade special in useable range. Whales are nice since they offer all these at the same time. The reason for this is so I can produce a warrior in 2 turns, and a horse in 4. I suspect in 1x1x it doesnt really matter where you put your cap, as long as it's got decent trade and prodcution, i.e. forests and ocean or rivered grass. Build cities next to resources to start off with, then fill in the gaps (best on 2x moves).

After building the warrior switch your worker to an ocean square to get horse faster (you may have to switch production to a sett to stop having another warrior built), then switch back to build the horse. After researching horse first, go for monarchy.

	05-07-2001 19:28									#19
	Got spare money?

i like to stick to the original settings for SP especially so 1x1x is only option,, and in MP i prefr 1x1x as that is what i am used to , but i do occasionaly cheat and start a MP game but only play it bymeslef to learn more of 2x2x or 2x1x

	09-07-2001 06:14									#20
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ICS: Build cities as quickly as possible.

ALso.....ICSrs have a lot of trouble with Barbs.