24-08-2000 14:52									#1
	Question to the OCC'ers Enter the AD-FREE zone

Just a quickie about Scenario maps for all of you that play occ!!

How do you guys feel about larger than small maps for occ purposes? Bearing in mind that it affects the land area and hence the number of cities that the AI can build, and secondly it will increase the research costs for Techs!

So, just sort of seeing what you guys think about this, should i try and stay to 40x50 or do any of you have suggestions for larger sizes of maps?

	24-08-2000 17:50									#2
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well, if people didn't balk at OCC7 (that very annoying polar start) I don't see why they wouldn't complain about a larger map. And Tom did already use a large map (250x40), although he was nice enough to build a polar highway so that we didn't have horsies still travelling in one direction away from our city while we were launching our ships (250 tiles - 1 turn per glacier - everone in the comp table _finished_ that game in 250 turns) Of course because of the road, and the size of the map, we all probably found more techs in huts individually than are found in some games by everyone combined. And it may have stunted the AI growth having contact with you from the start (it certainly stunted the AI in my game - no one came within 50 tiles of Home in my game, and 2 of the civs had their capitols about 50 tiles away.)

Anyway, i guess it boils down to, "If you build it, they will come."

	24-08-2000 18:14									#3
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My only concern about larger maps is the time it takes for you to find the AIs(getting several NONE units from huts will give the lucky player a huge advantage). And the real playing time that it takes to go around exploring. OK, that's 2 concerns .

A "normal" sized map is fine, a 100*100 sized map is probably overkill.

Nice to see you thinking up more scenarios Oldman. I've got 3 scenarios planned out in my head right now - just a matter of building them .

	24-08-2000 18:38									#4
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Yeah, i don't think i'll go for anything that size, but i've just had a cunning idea, i was going to use a world map, but who says it has to be accurate, right? hmm!!!! I have a cunning plan m' Lord!!

I hope you're not going to do my idea now Tom?!?!?! cause i've only got the one idea...

	24-08-2000 20:19									#5
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I've played several games with the larger maps and find them challenging, especially near the end when the AI starts builing a huge spaceship in 1 turn. It would take a good starting position to win.

Actually, I've been flirting with an idea for a scenario based on an island archipelago map with all of the civs starting with map making and trade. A polynesian theme in which trade, naval exploration and naval military tactics would be important. Just a thought. If anyone wants to put that into a scenario, be my guest. I haven't had time to design it myself and doubt I will ever get to it.

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"Then what happened"

	25-08-2000 09:08									#6
	Got spare money?

Well, Oldman, one of my ideas does involve the medium sized world map, but without any changes to it. Barbarians will play a big role...

I'll probably do another one first, so I don't think I'll be stepping on your toes.

	25-08-2000 09:34									#7
	Remove this text

If you use a big map you could increase the movement allowance for units. That would speed up the discovery times. Or make explorers move 2, all as road, cost 10 shields and be available with Alphabet or something like that... The AI will actually use quite a few explorers that way in my experience.

	25-08-2000 13:52									#8
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Tom, by the sound of it i doubt you'll be stepping on my toes!??! don't like the sound of barbarians!!!!

Sten, i'll try out that idea with increasing movement rates, that might be a good idea, if i doubled up the size of the map and doubled up all of the movement rates, would that work?

But, you might have to provide a scenario for occ17 Tom, i'm won't be finished by then...