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MBloomIII
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Jacksonville, FL
Jan 2001
time: 00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Maybe a little empathy for somebody who works his brains out to provide people a place to talk and discuss gaming strategy is in order too. People are quick to complain about anything and everything to MarkG. The man is one of the owners of this site. It is his hobby, not his profession. |
As an owner of a site Mark and Dan have to be aware that their actions and decisions are open to criticism from the membership. I happen to think they do a wonderful job and at no time have I ever critisized their site. My comment that as a owner AND moderator addresses this. If MarkG was simply the owner and did not actively participate as a moderator he could very easily pass off responsibilty to you, MtG, and the other Mods.
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The money that comes in goes right back into the site to make it better for people like you. |
What does this have to do with anything I said?
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If you want to play the blame game and insult people... insult the mods. It's our job to catch that kind of crap. We didn't... We also have lives and don't spend 24 hours a day reading every word typed in the off topic forums. Please "forgive" us our mistake in not catching it faster. |
Did you read my thread? That is exactly what I said. All I'm saying is that perhaps had MarkG responded with what you just stated, Chris may have been somewhat appeased.
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But then again, if we had, I'm sure you would probably be the first to complain about freedom of speech...  |
Are you addressing this to me or Chris? I've never complained about the Mods here. It is one of the reasons I like this place. I am, however, complaining about the owners response to a registered member.
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If I sound angry... you bet. as much as you or others (myself included "ONCE" I saw it) might have been disturbed about the thread... I feel the same way about this thread. Again, don't blame and insult somebody who tries his best for you guys... blame and insult the mods if that is your desire. You should all get in line to thank MarkG and DanQ for evening continuing to put in the time and effort to support this site. |
Here, let me be the first in line.
I think Mark and Dan do a great job with the Apolyton site and I thank you for the wonderful job you do.
MarkG, sometimes I think you are too quick to take offensive when people post criticism.
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:14
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First off, lets address things in order:
MBloom is right on the money, it was Mark's pedantic answer, coupled with the assine posts in the original and others, that brought this out further and further.
Next, lets talk to Ming:
I'm fully aware of how tough it is to run the site, but don't try to ply the overworked angle to far. We all appreciate the work Mark and Dan do, but by the same token, we expect them to abide and uphold the rules they themselves laid out.
And I won't blame you, as I am aware that you have been very busy lately, and I know you have girls yourself, so no, I don't think your an insensitive clod. I also know that MTG has been busting him gut at work, doing 14 hour days, and can't be here all the time. But we still have another mod, the one who closed it. MLeonard. The fact is, I didn't even know about that thread untill someone else (Drake) messaged me at work about it. At that point, it had been on the first page for 20 hours or so, and you say nobody thought to look at a thread titled "I am a Pig" with 2 pages of responces?
If you notice Ming, I also put this here, not in the OT, where it belongs.
Now, for more adventures of "Company man":
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
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The rape thing is obviously unacceptable and the fact that you attack the person who denounces it shows your immaturity. |
If you read this thread (obviously you didn't) I expressed anger that Chris decided to blame the moderators for the thread continuing to exist. Thinking either a)They are on all the time and b)They check every thread. However, he kept whining and whining that the mods should have closed it (they should have known). And then it comes out, he didn't even send a complaint email out!!! |
But what you didn't know, but I did, is that there was nobody to send it to! I knew the status of Ming and MTG, and it was the middle of the night in Greece, Dan is at work, and MLeonard was not on-line. The fact that this was not always the case is the point.
Do we moderate the site or do they?
They do, so stop the "company man" act.
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What a dirty little whiner... |
Company man.
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Here comes the 'company man' insult again, not that I even consider it an insult... Apolyton is a pretty good psedo-company to work for. ) |
[unneccesary extra insult] Company man.  [/unneccesary extra insult]
Now, back for more comments.
MBloom is very right about what got me wound up, it was two fold:
The callous and insensitive comments by some posters.
The lack of interest by the site owner.
I think it speaks volumes about the priorities of some people, that nonsense is given high priority, and something like this is given a "well it closed now, isn't it?" kind of answer.
Fact is, I don't care if people don't like this, maybe next time they will get off there ass and speak up instead of saying "it's just a troll", or "did you report it" and other assorted bullsh1t.
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Ming
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OK MBloom... forgive my earlier tirade.
I just get pissed when people jump all over MarkG when in my opinion, it is not deserved. Sure, he defends his staff. This site takes a lot of work to maintain. While MarkG and DanQ do most of the work, they count on their volunteers to help. They don't pay us, and we don't get anything but fancy titles... and we all put in HOURS and HOURS of our free time to help. Most of us do it because we respect the hard work they have put in the site, and we want to help to make sure they continue to keep OUR COMMUNITY alive. I salute MarkG for supporting us. He appreciates our help, and it shows his "honor" in supporting our efforts.
Moderating these forums isn't a black and white issue. As can be seen with two threads that were similar in nature...
Civnations evolution thread, and the Pig thread. Both threads dealt with disturbing subjects. The Pig thread (in my opinion once I saw it) should have been closed quicker. Yet if you read through the thread and this thread, it is obvious that some didn't feel that way. Some felt it was just a troll like many other troll threads and just laughed at all the responses... while I disagree, there was indeed a difference of opinion. Once a mod/owner was made aware of it... it was closed, and the person responsible was restricted. And what happened, people complain that it wasn't closed quick enough.
Civnations thread, while it was about evolution, quickly turned into a anti gay thread...
He used derogatory and insulting terms... and a complaint was registered. The complaint was received, and a warning was issued... within seconds he continued his actions... he was then restricted. And what happened, people complained that he was restricted. Somebody even complained when we shut down the DL civnation created to continue the discussion.... and brought up the typical free speech complaints.
We are damned if we do... and damned if we don't...
So if you hear some frustration here... you are correct. We can't please everybody, yet we still try to.
So if you want a whipping boy on this issue... blame me. I didn't see the thread until after the fact. Insult me... blame me... curse me... fine. But leave the owners of the site out of it. Let's not make them think a simple solution would be to close down the OTF and stick to just gaming topics. This would be lesser place if they did!
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MarkG
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Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see
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quote:
Originally posted by MBloomIII
The point I was very subtly trying to make originally was that the owners (in this case, MarkG) need to stay above the general fray and understand that members are going to complain. If they wish to set up a buffer by employing you guys as Mods, then by all means do so. However, Mark's original response to Chris was way to defensive a position to take considering Chris' agitated state. MarkG sounded very much like a little kid making sure he didn't get blamed for breaking the lamp. Chris is a registered member who deserves repect from the ownership. As the owner, Mark and Dan are held to a much higher standard of involvement than the Mods are. |
MBloomIII,
please understand two things:
1) We have recieved tons and tons of accusations, baseless whining and insults over the last years. In response, I believe that we have build an image of gentleness and professionalism(despite the incosistency with our financial status) in how we communicate with our visitors. However, this isnt always as easy as it might sound, especially when time is limited.
2) When our "staff", who are doing something for the community, for free, on their own own spare time, are criticised not for not doing their "job", but for not doing it quickly enough, I think I have the right and the obligation towards them(and I hope that you will allow me to) to be defensive for their actions.
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:14
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Chris, you maybe wanted to look like a better man, and maybe you didn't want to look that way but you're simply a really caring action taking kind of guy.
But stop. This doesn't make you look good.
You've gone into over-seriousness over-protective lets-be-so-moral-everyone-pukes mode.
Let's look at the options/l
1) this was real
<lu>a) it was rape
<lu>we can't do anything really. </lu>
</lu>
<lu>b) it wasn't a rape but rather some drunk guy hitting on a young girl, getting her drunk and convincing her to sleep with him.
<lu>sure, it wasn't nice. but it isn't rape either. i'm sure many people had similar experiences where they wished they never had that extra drink last night and have sex with a sleaze. but it isn't rape.</lu>
</lu>
2) this was a troll
<lu>a) you and others made your protest</lu>
<lu>b) the guy was banned</lu>
<lu>c) he probably won't return here. he's also traceable.</lu>
There's no reason in continuing trying to be the good and moral inspector gadget here. You can't really get him even if it was real, which you don't know. And even if it was, we still don't know whether it was rape or that drunken sex thing (or something in between).
And seeing your posts on other topics, you seem to be too morally sensitive about women, races, kids and site speed  .
How can you watch the news? It's so degrading of the people the news are about!!
I say let it go. And chill out a bit. Your intentions are admirable,but you're overdoing it.
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MBloomIII
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Jacksonville, FL
Jan 2001
time: 00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
MBloomIII,
please understand two things:
1) We have recieved tons and tons of accusations, baseless whining and insults over the last years. In response, I believe that we have build an image of gentleness and professionalism(despite the incosistency with our financial status) in how we communicate with our visitors. However, this isnt always as easy as it might sound, especially when time is limited. |
I can only imagine!  I have enjoyed my time at this site and the main reason is the hard work that you and the Mods all put in. For that I congratulate on all of your hard work. You have created a site that you should truly be proud of.
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2) When our "staff", who are doing something for the community, for free, on their own own spare time, are criticised not for not doing their "job", but for not doing it quickly enough, I think I have the right and the obligation towards them(and I hope that you will allow me to) to be defensive for their actions. |
I applaud you for coming to the defense of your staff. I have done this many times myself. The way I was reading the situation was that Chris was blowing off steam over a situation he was very upset about. Much like a spouse coming home from working and venting about the bad day they had. The last thing the spouse wants to hear is a negative comment. I don't know if there is a history between you and Chris, but I think the situation could have been greatly diffused had the original response been along the lines of. "oops. That one got by us." Much like saying to your spouse, "wow, that sounds horrible". Perhaps I should just keep my mouth shut, but as a concerned member I was trying to point out a problem that I felt could have been easily dealt with in the beginning rather than letting it drag on.
Note: The 'keep mouth shut' comment above is an open invitation for all you trolls to inject your witty remarks.
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:14
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I find it quite revealing that some authority figures chose to not once address a comment at me, in a thread I started.
MBloom, you have been on the ball all the way, as far as my view of this. As far as I know, Mark and and I get along fine, outside of my busting his chops about the site speed, but I hardly believe he would be petty enough to hold a grudge based on that. Also, it might seem that Imran and I don't get along, and this also is nonsense, and I hope all understand that all of this must be viewed in the context of these events.
Let me also mention, that this was being fought in the name of others, and that I was compelled by my own moral and ethical code to take this stand.
Mark, I like your site, and have told you so before, and I believe it is sometimes important to haul an uncomfortable thing like this out and give it a fair hearing, not dismiss it as the rantings of a single poster. Many people expressed the same sentiments as I did, but just made their comments and moved on. Only here, after many posts, has your staff even really addressed this, but with you as the exception, chose to ignore my comments and direct them elsewhere, and in fact, only to point out a site feature was I addressed in the balence of all this. Truly astounding.
I think that all that needs to be said about this has been said, so please lock this up, as it has served it's purpose.
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06-07-2001 23:05
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