04-07-2001 15:16									#1
	PC Gamer UK: No (UK) release this year Full PM-box? Change here!

The August issue announces that Civ III will meet not its November release date (page 22). They say that March 2002 is looking more likely. They do not state whether this is due to localisation issues or Firaxis choosing to spend some more time developing the game.

	04-07-2001 15:19									#2
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it's obvious that a 6-month delay would never be due to localization problems...

	04-07-2001 15:21									#3
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So we'll be twiddling our thumbs and speculating for longer still then

	04-07-2001 15:22									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Is there any internet page for that announcement?

	04-07-2001 15:26									#5
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A four month delay in getting to the UK market is not unheard of, but I agree it is unlikely. The recent FGN Jeff Briggs interview implies that the game is/was on track for a Fall release so it depends which source you consider more up to date or reliable. I would like to think that the desultory E3 showing has persuaded them to take more time and get it perfect rather than wrap it up fast and ship it.

	04-07-2001 15:40									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold I would like to think that the desultory E3 showing has persuaded them to take more time and get it perfect rather than wrap it up fast and ship it.

I pray for this. I'll become more religious, if not a fanatic fundamentalist, in change of a better enhanced and refined Civ III

	04-07-2001 20:47									#7
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I don't know if I can take this for another nine months...

	04-07-2001 22:58									#8
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How many people here are actually surprised by the probable 2002 release? Did anyone actually think it would be released by holidays 2001? I was hoping for it, but I didn't give it a chance to actually occur.

	04-07-2001 23:05									#9
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i was surprised. since the game has been reported as 80% finished, the delay is really weird.

	04-07-2001 23:26									#10
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quote: Originally posted by uncle_funk i was surprised. since the game has been reported as 80% finished, the delay is really weird.

Actually the delay would be understandable. The last interview hinted that they were down to the play balance stage. That is basically gamespeak for testing the AI. We have only shadowy references to how the AI will be. So my guess is the AI does not function as well as they would like in the whole game system. It would only take them a week to find that out, it's been about that much time since the last word from Firaxis. Thus we have major AI play balance problem which would entail major reworking.

With every pronouncement on each game sub-system Firaxis has made, there has been a great clamour by the civ3 community. And also a few nay-sayers, Yin26 has been the most vocal, questioning how the AI will respond to all these new game sub-systems. With this rumoured delay we have our answer, they don't. At least not to the level Firaxis feels we, the civ3 community, would accept.

	05-07-2001 01:05									#11
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Well, I think the CTP games show what happens when a game is rushed. We want Civ3, not Call To Power 3.

	05-07-2001 06:51									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If true, this is GREAT news! Civ 3 might well be the last of this series, and it would be truly tragic to see it rushed out the door for Christmas. I've long advocated Firaxis taking time to test the heck out of this baby, pour blood sweat and tears into the AI, and make a game that is better than Civ 1 and 2 combined.

	05-07-2001 08:11									#13
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I also would much prefer they took the time to get it right and avoid the CTP II Christmas release distaster.

I think at Firaxis the developers probably have the upper hand over the accountants, which is the way it should be.

	05-07-2001 08:51									#14
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What I don't quite understand is the whole the Christmas push for games.

O.K. before you lamblast me, I know Christmas is a huge shopping time in the US and people buy tons of gifts that they ordinarily would not buy. And so it would seem to make sense that you would want your game released in time for a Christmas rush.

Except, for the fact that some of the greatest games of all time including titles sold sold did not come out around Christmas time. I checked some dates and found that The Sims missed its Christmas release, it went gold Jan 17, 2000. Black & White was released this spring. As I recall SMAC came out in the spring. And if anyone is a fan of Blizzard games, you know they never come out at Christmas time no matter when they were originally slated to be released. Their games are always delayed until they are right - Diablo II came out in the middle of June.

I think one reason for this is that with everyone pushing for a Christmas release there is a flooded gaming market that makes it hard to sell a lot of copies of your game. Plus because people rushed their releases, the games are not that good and do not sell well.

Instead releasing in the spring or summer, you will have a more open market to show off your game. And no matter what if the game is good, it will sell well. As past classics have proved releasing the game during the Spring combined with good reviews will lead to the game sitting atop the bestselling lists for weeks. This causes more buzz and leads to selling a lot of copies at Christmas to those fans that had not got the game yet.

So, the only thing I can't understand I guess is why Firaxis wants a Christmas release so badly. Instead they should make a classic and the sales will follow.

	05-07-2001 09:23									#15
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quote: Originally posted by tniem So, the only thing I can't understand I guess is why Firaxis wants a Christmas release so badly. Instead they should make a classic and the sales will follow.

A true classic will sell and sell no matter what time of year it originally ships. There is no doubt however that a less stellar game is more likely to sell well if released in early december. The developers no doubt want to produce a classic but the accountants and pragmatists have to plan for the average and worst as well as the best scenarios.

	05-07-2001 11:37									#16
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Grumbold, on your subject title it sounds like you're talking about a late UK release. Could this just mean that the game will still be released at the scheduled time in the states and shipped out to other countries at a later time? Maybe I'm just hoping a little bit too much.

	06-07-2001 04:22									#17
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The magazine reported the UK release was to be pushed back to around march. This implies that the whole product may be being delayed but does not guarantee it. If you look at the game Arcanum you will see a certain level of bitterness in the US public because release is being withheld until the 24th August to allow all "localisation" to be completed and a simultaneous worldwide release to occur. The US version has been "gold" for some time.

	06-07-2001 15:30									#18
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It's not accountants, damn it. It's the marketers (suits). They are bad news as they always want to run the show. That can't happen. They need to be reined in and told what to market.

Of course, being a techie, I could be biased

	06-07-2001 16:07									#19
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Well if it is just the UK, or non US versions that are delayed for considerably longer, I consider this a great insult. Why the hell should one country get the thing so much earlier than the other? There is no logical reason for it that I can see other than trying to rip off the public.

Personally I can't see this being the case, they would be shooting themselves in the foot and make a lot of people very angry. It is known it will sell in all countries well, so they would release it moreorless simultaneously. If not, I will not be happy especially if they have this regional limitations on where the software will run, which I doubt (why do they do that? So you have to buy a more expensive European version? Profiteering of the worst kind, and constitutes a barrier to free international trade and competition when you look at it like that)

	06-07-2001 16:51									#20
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Provost, let americans be the beta tester of early release. We'll enjoy the game after the second patch, already bundled with international version of the game.

BTW, are british english and american english diverging so much that they need different translations?

	06-07-2001 17:05									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith BTW, are british english and american english diverging so much that they need different translations?

It can't be doing younger British-Australian-Canadian-NewZealandian children good to learn spellings like "color" and "civilization". Every non-American knows its supposed to be "colour" and "civilisation"

It's a problem with the Gameboy Color - how can you tell a schoolchild that it is meant to be "colour" when the US spelling is splashed all over the TV?

	07-07-2001 04:39									#22
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Localisation includes all sorts of country-specific stuff. Language conversion. Testing the software for a "maturity" rating to their standards. Different publishers may be involved. Co-ordinating marketing with release. Artwork. Arranging local production of the game, box and other components. Distribution.

Unless you are a big company with multiple teams a game must be "gold" in the primary country before it can be adapted to fit others. All the time you hold back release in that first country is potential revenue earning time, especially if it is a good time of year for a release. Most adopt for a "ship when ready" approach in each country separately.

	07-07-2001 19:02									#23
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that S is a brit thing.

like fags.

all you fags.

::lights up a ciggy::

	07-07-2001 21:22									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith I pray for this. I'll become more religious, if not a fanatic fundamentalist, in change of a better enhanced and refined Civ III

You put rather dramatically, but I basically agree. If they can achieve that before christmas - OK, fine. But IF they must postspone the release-date to spring-02, I really wouldnt mind that much. The important thing is that they release a product that have the potential to become yet another all-time-classic.

Besides, Firaxis have also the "Sid Golf" project as well, which is good. Its never a good idea to put all eggs in one basket alone - even if the Civ-3 basket indeed is a promising one.