06-07-2001 09:50									#31
	Got spare money?

The problem with this is there's no definition for Civ 3. What does it mean? How is that different from Civ 2.5? Nobody knows. That's just a bunch of random words without meaning.

I don't think the next installment in the Civ will be cancelled. Why? What is the reason for that?

	06-07-2001 10:06									#32
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Well,
why then this debate at all?

Becouse I will buy Civ3 when it is released and get pissed of if I get Civ2.5 in the box.
Yin had a recent thread about "Who's not going to buy Civ3", well if they release I will buy it.

So if we get holy crap (ups, better would be unholy) in the box, wouldn't it have been better to not release it at all?

	06-07-2001 10:16									#33
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes, thats exactly right Jeje2.

See, if you were in Sid's shoes, your life would be like this:

"Everyone loves me cause I make great games, I'm one of the 3 kings of game making. If I release a crappy game, or even just a mediocre game, my reputation is ruined."

Probably one reason he stopped/paused the game dinosaurs.

So he wouldn't risk selling Civ3, if it wasn't going to be looked at as Civ3 when people play it.

	06-07-2001 10:28									#34
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quote: Originally posted by ContradictioN See, if you were in Sid's shoes, your life would be like this: "Everyone loves me cause I make great games, I'm one of the 3 kings of game making. If I release a crappy game, or even just a mediocre game, my reputation is ruined." Probably one reason he stopped/paused the game dinosaurs. So he wouldn't risk selling Civ3, if it wasn't going to be looked at as Civ3 when people play it.

One question if I may:
How many sequals has Sid wrelly made sofar? Why is Civ 3 anything different?
Haven't FIRAXIS told many times that now there is an oppurtunity for new talents to rise?

But, you are right on your point.
If it is just Civ2.5 FIRAXIS could (or then maybe not) freeze it.
There has now been talk that Civ3 was aimed for 01 release. I do hope and pray it isn't so. I want Civ3.

TechWins: Yup, I have mentioned eralier that no matter how good Civ3 will be, I still expect more. (After the list and 2.5 years waiting it's what you expect)

	06-07-2001 10:36									#35
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I don't know the answers to those questions

All I am sure is that Sid feels like the granddaddy of gaming. There is nothing wrong with that of course.

	06-07-2001 14:11									#36
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by ContradictioN For those of you who complain about things none of us know about. Why are you complaining!? Give Firaxis a break ah? You sound as if everything you know nothing about is wrong. Now you see why I get annoyed with that attitude.

ContradictioN, I can understand your point, my apologize if I bother you (but ehi, feel free to skip my post! ).

We are complaining because it's not banned by law, just to keep up in exercise
No, seriusly, is not that we don't know anything of the game and Firaxis announce. We complain because we where hoping for something better, because we think Firaxis have plenty of available suggestion that could make a great game, for beneficial of both customers and Firaxis.

We (me) still suppose that all the last minute decision can be more taken with a more bold attitude, if we "push" hardly enough.

I know someone is yelling "shut up and vote with your money: if you don't like the game, don't buy it", but that's a "looser consumer" approach.
How do you prefer to teach and educate your children, warning him/her with words before to slap him/her if things go wrong, or wainting and seeing 'till eventually punching him/her?

Ok, let's hybernate for a couple of months, then awake and see if nothing is changed at least ContradictioN will have a break

	06-07-2001 14:26									#37
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quote: No, seriusly, is not that we don't know anything of the game and Firaxis announce. We complain because we where hoping for something better, because we think Firaxis have plenty of available suggestion that could make a great game, for beneficial of both customers and Firaxis.

Some of these suggestions here are great in all but when does Firaxis stop listening to the suggestions and just get the game out into the market? If Firaxis continues to listen to suggestions until all of us are out of suggestions the game won't be coming out until 2010. It's just that at some point Firaxis has to say "ok, these are all great suggestions but we need to release this game soon". I think that time has come. It's sad to say but it's true. We're not going to get Civ4 it's going to be Civ3. Live up to the facts. I'd also like to have Civ4 with Civ3 but even more so I'd like to play this game sometime in the current decade.

	06-07-2001 14:28									#38
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I strongly doubt that Jeff Briggs would publicly announce a release date if Sid didn't think it'd be done.

Of course, I like the John McCommack approach better, "When it's done, it's done."

	06-07-2001 14:38									#39
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins If Firaxis continues to listen to suggestions until all of us are out of suggestions the game won't be coming out until 2010. It's just that at some point Firaxis has to say "ok, these are all great suggestions but we need to release this game soon".

Sure as hell! I don't want to suggest things forever, I asked quite often that FIraxis tell us a report of things that are out for sure. They sometimes did, as for map based on square tiles, not hexagon or globe. I appreciate this, and usually try to avoid too much complain about single choice I dislike

The problem is speculating without sure points, so we continue to make lot of suggestions too late to jump on the wagon. But that's Sid's fault. Don't forget they admitted Dino project loop around as RTS, TBS, First Person (ehrr, dino), Card game...

You can see they haven't most for sure until some day after they go gold

	07-07-2001 00:21									#40
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Actualy what I mean by my "have faith in firaxis", is that they're probably keeping most of the info from us, so that the game isn't ruined when we play it.

We probably know only the tip of the ice berg about Civ3. The rest, that we don't know, is probably all the stuff that we were hoping Civ3 would have.

The only thing we really know a lot about, is the look of the terrain.

	07-07-2001 04:47									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Actualy what I mean by my "have faith in firaxis", is that they're probably keeping most of the info from us, so that the game isn't ruined when we play it.

I've said things to the same effect as that before, as well. I mean I would like to know some stuff about the game but when I first play a game I like finding out all the new things and surprises about it.

	08-07-2001 10:06									#42
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The thing I find interesting is the number of times we've heard about major features: "I'd tell you more, but it's not finished yet." So, if we still have a Christmas release schedule, one begins to wonder if these profound changes to gameplay will be given proper testing/tweaking time?

I don't mind lack of information...but unfinished primary components this close to release time is cause for concern.

	10-07-2001 03:45									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The barganing table by itself is good enough to make this a legit Civ III. As far as I am concerned this is the most revolutinary feature ever in a TBS game and will make Civ III the most immersive TBS game ever. I can envison myself in mid or late game spending 10 or 15 minutes per turn just trying to hammer out deals.

Having said that though, everything depends on the AI. If the AI is not many, many times smarter then Civ II. Then the whole game is ruined for me no matter what Fireaxis does.

	10-07-2001 06:18									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Agreed. Without that solid AI, bargaining table stuff will be empty and tired button pushing and nothing more.