23-08-2000 09:49									#1
	OCC fortnight #16 - discussion and logs Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Oldman donated a scenario for OCC16. You start with a settler and a spy. There are roads leading away from your starting location in 4 directions. Each road leads to a bribable AI city.

You start with 500 gold so you can bribe the phalanx blocking the road and your city. You will have enough gold left to buy a palace once you have collected at least one shield.

Download the game at http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ16.zip

I already played it and unfortunaytely got myself killed one turn before because I had neglected my defense. I thought I would be able to last that one extra turn, but I didn't . I would have launched in 1772 for a 1787 landing.

Edit: play as the Merrymen civilization.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited August 22, 2000).]

	23-08-2000 09:54									#2
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Thanks.

	23-08-2000 04:38									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks also for the defence tip - OCCers often take survival in the early game for granted, having only to worry about Barbs! Looks like Oldman's up to his "neighbourly" best again.

	23-08-2000 05:18									#4
	Remove this text

heh, I took Paul's heed to heart and still almost bit it less than 50 turns in with a freak coordinated attack by 2 different AI, losing 2 units and barely having a third survive - fortunately I had just rush-built a temple in prep for an aquaduct, and my city was due to grow to 4 that turn or I'd have been in real trouble...

------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

	23-08-2000 06:41									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I will play this tommorrow and see how I do. I don't have time today but I look forward to playing it. Wish me luck, my first OCC game in a while, I'm gonna reread your site tonight and a few threads, then I'm off to conquer the world, or at least AC

	23-08-2000 14:57									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Wish me luck - on my current track record I will probably get killed by the damn phalanx!!


------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	23-08-2000 18:17									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hmmm, I tried sitting still for a turn, hoping that the English would take the war serious and sac their phalanxes, saving me the bribe. But no ... they remained passive!
Very authentic

- Rib -

	23-08-2000 20:04									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ok, I'm sitting here, still 4000 BC wondering which direction to go... the hut in the north looks quite appealing right now... but that might be a waste of turn, then again it might not. Starting techs alphabet and masonry... celts and french are probably the nearby cities due to the fact that they have 2 cities size 2 on the top 10. Demographics look fair, no wonders built by anyone. This shouldn't be fun. Well I'm going to Pauls OCC page, getting a pen and paper and some water, my muscles are still aching from that time trial 200 meters in cross country practice... maybe I'll take a shower first, but I really can't wait... looks like a great scenario, wish me luck.

	23-08-2000 23:09									#9
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I'm playing its the year 780 AD, I'm getting tired of the log so I'll just give the important points. Its becoming very annoying, half my huts have been barbs and I only have contact with 3 civs one who I am at war with. I choose the city to the north, I managed to trade maps for the other areas and I think that the north one is the best. The Celts are being a pain in the ass because they're using one of my sqaures, the french nearly beat me to Copernicus' now they're beating me to Isaac Newtons. I'm sitting here ready to beat my computer screen... so far, the highlights...

1750 BC Colossus
1050 BC Monarchy
200 BC Coperniucus'
140 AD Republic
160 AD All caravans reach cities
460 AD Shakespeares
760 AD Democracy

As you can see I had a pretty bad start with monarchy coming very late and trade FAR too late, the tech tree messed me up and the AI kept giving techs instead of money as gifts... its raining here in ny (like you'd care) but I think I'll go get something to eat and finish the game later today, I really need a break

	23-08-2000 23:53									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'm having a similarly poor experience with this one. I went to the North and caused the city to revolt, my spy miraculously survived and became a vet. This worked out great as I used her to travel the continent in search of huts. I just couldn't get the science rate up though and the AI's would only cease fire for techs for a turn or two and then they would come back. I think I'll be lucky to launch before 1900. The tech tree never helped me at all. I found so many techs in huts (all useless) that it really messed me up I think.

I'm not into logs yet as I like to get through the games as fast as possible (a spousely thing you know), but I'll post my key info if I make it through. Good Luck to you all.

------------------
"Then what happened"

	24-08-2000 01:18									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

A couple weeks ago i would have been thrilled with an 1837AD AC landing. Now, I look and see that I was 25 turns behind Paul's projected date, and I could have been 1827 easily, and probably 1797 if not for my start of the game. Actually having embassies really helped me early on, although it also kept me from discovering a tech on my own for the first 2000 years, kind of slowed down the push to monarchy. That and my futile attempt to grow quickly. It took me 20 turns to irrigate the wheat, and all the while i was ignoring the gold trying to grow. This was one case where I think trying to grow really stunted my growth. On the plus side, once I finally got alliances with the french and celts, they were more than happy to finance my early growth. Unfortunately, once I had some trade routes established, their generosity dried up. I think part of it was I was getting gold faster than I could spend it (with 10 shield production, it only costs 38 gold/turn for 2-turn caravans), and when they had enough gold again to donate it to me, I had far more than either of them, and it grew from there. High profit caravans and the occasional slight miscalculation on the science rate (beaker window 99% full, so max taxes to avoid wasting trade) put my treasury among the highest in the game. I even stopped sending out caravans to supplement my beaker production and keep it under 3 turns per tech to keep the french from demanding 500-1000 gp at one point (I was really worried while i was building Apollo's that they were going to cancel the alliance - they were uncooperative - One of the reasons i built all my components before most of my structurals was to drain my treasury, and i still had about 8 freights left over. Makes me wonder if I should have rush-built caravans in 1 turn when I was producing them in 2 turns at no cost. Well, I ramble. On to the game:

Diety 2.42
AC 1837 AD

Monarchy: -1850
Republic: -825
Democracy: 540

Colossus: -2050
Cope's: -400
Skake's: -125
Ike's: 500
Darwin's: 1140
Apollo: 1774

trade: -825, -700, -525

size 12: -550
size 21: 440


-4000 hmm, established embassy, noticed i can't bribe it - must not be one of the choices. ahh, roads - didn't seem them at first... using movement probably cost me getting to 2 of the cities knowing how they are set up, so - if spy survives bribing will make a wonderful explorer silk and pheasant prolly are irrellavent - lets try south - hmm, wheat, pheasant, river - feasable - french demanding alphabet - to give or not to give that is the question - will be more expensive if i make peace... - i can gift it later if it matters - they have another city (2 actually), and they are icy anyway. revolt, (heh, returned to Spy? - guess I've never bribed without having a city before )reclaim Locksly Castle, bronze working (not near enough gold to buy a palace!) disband horseman (now there is)
-3950 palace, hut, chariot
-3850 hut, 50 gp
-3800 hut, barb horseman, chariot dies
-3750 hut, horseback riding
-3600 someone died attacking the barb horseman - think there's a city nearby
-3400 hut, none horseman
-3350 peace, french, peace, celtics
-3250 hut, warrior code
-3100 hut, Zimbabwe => Iron Working
-2850 - wierd french don't expel my spy
-2600 hut, pottery (grumble)
-2450 mapmaking, alliance (celts) (every time i get close, i get another tech!!!)
-2350 iron working, alliance,ceremonial burial (finally) (French)
-2250 hut, legion
-2100 Code of Laws (my first discovery?), barb leader captured (took forever to track him down in Sherwood forest )
-2050 Colossus, English and French get monarchy... maybe in 1900 i'll ask the french for a gift?
-1900 Monarchy (French), revolt
-1850 Monarchy founded
-1800 temple, WL
-1725 phalanx dies to english horsie, warrior takes out horse
-1700 ack, spanish kill warrior with trireme, and i can't buy the trireme(expelled spy is only defence in the city atm), legion too far away, horseman nearly killed by an attacking warrior while in forest, city due to grows to 4 is right back down to 3...
-1450 writing (french) - i'll get my second discovery one of these days if i survive, currency, 150 gp (celts)
-1400 library, sabotage spanish trireme, spy survives
-1250 trade
-1150 construction, 200 gp (french), literacy (celts)
-1100 marketplace
-1000 Aquaduct
-975 100 gp (celts)
-950 caravan
-900 hmm, nearly at republic, lets tread water with this caravan
-825 Republic, revolt, Republic founded, silk (204, demanded) to the Evil Castle
-800 caravan, size 5, cancel WL (no mystism yet)
-750 Mathmatics
-725 colosseum, WL
-700 100 gp (french), cloth (demanded, 160) to Lyons
-675 caravan
-625 caravan, Mystism
-575 caravan
-550 size 12, cancel WL
-525 silver (demanded, 228) to Camarthen
-500 Philosophy, Astronomy
-475 caravan, bridge building, peace (English), 25 gp (Celts), darn it when did the french build Tours! they are using my sea space I'll have to watch it when I start working our mutual hills, they only have 3 spaces that bring in more than 1 food excluding MY whale
-425 sell temple
-400 Copernicus' Observatory
-350 caravan
-325 100 gp (celts), french still under 100 gp
-300 caravan
-250 caravan, 100 gp (french)
-200 caravan, University (should have done wheel here...)
-150 caravan, 100 gp (Celts), sell colosseum
-125 Shakespeare's Theatre, hmm Tours is clearing some of their 11 forests and mining 1 of its 3 hills, wonder if they'll do my hills too? - no gold from my allies for a while, they don't have 75 gp between them
-75 Wheel
20 university, Engineering
40 100 gp (Celts)
100 Sanitation, 50 gp (french)
120 Sewer System, WL
180 Banking, 100 gp (celts), french still below 50
200 Bank
240 caravan
260 Theory of Gravity, cancel WL (19)
280 caravan
300 50 gp (Celts), 50 gp (french)
320 caravan, Chemistry
360 caravan
400 caravan, Invention, WL
440 caravan, size 21, cancel WL, 50 gp (Celts), french patience runs thin
500 Isaac Newton's College, yep - Tours settlers are preparing mines on a hills square I'm using
540 Harbor, Democracy, revolt, Democracy founded
560 WL
580 caravan, size 22, cancel WL, share maps (French)
600 Economics, french finish mines - I'm over 20 shields now
620 caravan
640 gunpowder
660 caravan
680 Explosives, gold (demanded, 165) to Chartres
700 caravan
720 Navigation
740 Stock Exchange
760 WL
780 Engineers, cancel WL
820 caravan
840 Magnetism
860 caravan
900 caravan, Metalurgy, heh, they're going to road the mines for me as well , of course I'm a tad early for refrigeration, settlers don't know what to do
940 caravan
960 Electricity. gold (demanded, 171) to Chartres
980 caravan
1000 Refrigeration
1020 Supermarket, WL
1060 Engineers, Steam Engine
1080 cease fire (english), 100 gp (French)
1100 caravan
1120 Railroad, size 26 (cancel WL)
1140 Darwin's Voyage, Industrialization, Corporation
1180 freight, Electronics
1200 gems (demanded, 278) to The Evil Castle, 50 gp (Celts)
1240 Steel
1260 freight, copper (demanded, 130) to Kells
1300 freight, refining
1340 freight
1360 Combustion, beads (demanded, 144) to lyons, gold (demanded, 360) to cardiff
1380 freight
1400 Automobile, 100 gp (french), 25 gp (celts)
1420 Superhighways
1440 Mass Production
1460 freight
1480 Feudalism, oil (undemanded, 118) to tours
1500 freight
1510 Chivalry
1520 freight, beads (demanded, 227) to tours, bribe barb crusader
1530 Leadership
1540 freight
1550 gee, its nice of you frenchmen to clean up my pollution, but i can do it faster. really!
1560 freight, Conscription
1580 freight
1590 tactics start WL
1600 freight, size 27
1610 size 28, cancel WL
1620 factory, Machine Tools, beads (demanded, 235) to Tours
1640 power plant
1650 Miniaturization
1660 off shore platform
1680 Computers
1690 Research Lab
1700 freight, Mobile Warfare
1710 freight
1720 Robotics
1730 Manufacturing Plant
1740 freight, flight
1750 freight
1752 freight,
1754 freight, Radio, coal (demanded, 143), WL
1756 freight, size 29, cancel WL
1758 freight
1760 Advanced Flight
1666 Rocketry
1772 Space Flight, Atomic Theory, 50 gp (Celts)
1774 Apollo Program (17 freight/caravan and a healthy treasury, and no one else has flight, peace and/or alliances with everyone on the continent - besides probably having been to conservative once again, I wonder what I have to worry about...)
1776 struct #1
1778 #2, Plastics, french => tactics, conscription and steam engine for communism and continued alliance
1780 comp #1
1782 comp #2
1784 comp #3, Nuclear Fission, sell sewer system (only 28 years late)
1786 comp #4, sell aquaduct
1788 comp #5
1790 comp #6
1792 struct #3
1794 #4
1796 #5, Laser
1798 #6
1800 #7
1802 #8, Superconductor
1804 #9
1806 #10
1808 #11, Fusion Power
1810 #12
1812 #13 (heh, 3 french diplomats all lined up in a row outside my city, probably more just can't see with my spy)
1814 #14
1816 module #1
1818 #15, 50 gp (Celt), bribe Celt diplomat, expell 2 french diplomats (wow, they appologize)
1820 mod #2, heh, french send 2 stacks of diplomats this time
1822 mod #3, launch
1823 City Walls, oops, can't expel them from overlapping terrain...
1824 Mass transit - heh, little good that did
1825 Coastal Fortress
1826 Armor
1827 french steal plastic, English sneak attack (killed my legion in the fort), plus side french come to my aid and those dozen or so diplomats all zip right past my city off towards the evil castle
1828 fighter, Stealth
1829 Stealth Fighter
1830 armor
1832 Battleship, polytheism for superconductor, leadership for Genetic Engineering (french) war with persians at french urging
1833 Howitzer
1834 Armor
1835 SAM
1836 Airport
1837 Alpha Centari! Little John the Cruel of the Merrymen

All dressed up and no one to fight After that early game scare, I never did see another spanish unit, or for that matter other than a persian trireme that died attacking my legion, a persian or mongolian unit either. About all i did was provide cover for the french diplomats with my 2 fighters. Only threat was all the diplomats and the english sneak attack dealt with that.

------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

	24-08-2000 01:37									#12
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I died... I got apollo, then everything went to hell...

960 AD Isaac Newtons
1610 AD Darwins
1838 AD Apollo
1870 AD Death

I had 4 Structurals and 6 components done. Then I had to switch to military production because 3 civs launched invasions and my few miliary units couldn't hold. I managed to keep them off for a good ammount of time. Then when I started to restart my spaceship construction france launched a HUGE invasion on me. 3 battleships destroyed my inner city defense, 6 tanks tore down the rest of the defenses and 2 bombers knocked out my last line of defenses. It wasn't fun... I was yelling at my computer, my mom thought I was insane, which isn't too far from the truth

Well, it was a nice scenario.

	24-08-2000 04:09									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This scenario is really different with MGE. No gifts or alliances of course (deity), but my Spy can steal their tech quite handily. Not too often or else she won't last .... and only what I need of course (Polytheism, yuck!). Huts give me cash, mostly.

All is well until the late middle ages when

A H U N D R E D Barbarians show up, all Musketeers and Cannons .

My best unit is an Elephant (bribed during the last onslaught) ... my Archers are holding off the French in the SE ... my spy could help out, but she's on an ex-Barbarian Trireme the other side of the world

HELP!!

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

	24-08-2000 05:48									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I had a relatively easy time with this one.In my game the ais were very hospitable once I repaired my reputation.Early alliances with the English,Celts and French made it real cozy.Embassys were very important.That spy was great!!She made 4 or 5 mission before being captured.Those 3 gave me tons of help.Later the Celts rolled over the English but the alliance with France and Celts lasted all game.

I went about it wrong in the beginning and bribed 2 phalanx.Although I got my city cheap I didnt have enough gold to build my palace for a bit.I did get earlier contact that way and a better look at 3 of 4 positions but my research languished early game.Thats where the embassys and spy went to work.

I was able to make contact with the Mongols but had my explorer sent home the turn before I would have contacted Persia.Later I was able to form an alliance with the Mongols.Shortlived but formed.

It turned out to be good decision to build a transport and freight to make contact with Persia.My research took a big turn for the good after massive tech gifting.

A few early attacks and barbs but mostly smooth sailin.Well..not exactly I came within a whisker of death when the French attacked and my city went from size 2 to 1.

2 of my 3 government techs were timed perfectly.Especially good was Demo as my "we love days" carried over.

I accidently found if you set an engineer to work mining,then IMMEDIATELY click him to stop,that engineer will be able to clean pollution in one turn.I used it in between pollution to have 1 engineer help the settler finish up with terrain improvements.

deity 2.42

Arrival-1789ad

Collosus-1600bc
Cope’s-425bc
Shake’s-1ad
Sir Isaac-520ad
Darwin’s-1020ad
Apollo-1590ad

Monarchy-2250bc
Republic-925bc
Democracy-140ad

Trade-1300bc
Construction-1100-bc
Sanitation-50bc
Refrigeration-700ad
Automobile-1020
Computers-1340ad
Space Flight-1550ad

trade
1-975bc
2-925bc
3-825bc

12-550bc
21-260ad


4000-establish embassy with England-bribe SE phalanx-187-bribe NE phalanx 187
3950-gift Masonry to English-ceasefire-contact French-gift Mason-trade Alpha for Bronze-peace-hut-archer
3900-contact Celts-peace-establish embassy with French-bribe Lyons 87>Horseback Riding-spy returned-tax rate funny
3850-hut 25
3700-gift Horseback to England-ceasefire with French-establish embassy with Celts-trade celts Mason for Burial
3550-hut-horseman
3500-hut barb horse-bribed 41
3250-French declare war-disband phalanx-hut barb horse
3200-pop decrease 2>1(french attack)-hut-50
3150-peace with England
2950-palace
2800-alliance with Celts against England
2500-steal Laws from French-spy returned
2450-gift Laws to England-ceasefire
2250-Monarchy-instant revolution.....hehehe....trade Celts Monarchy for Writing-steal Currency from French-spy captured @#$%-gift Writing and Monarchy to French-war to alliance-trade England Currency for Map Making-gift Monarchy-peace
2200-gift Map to French-gift Currency to Celts-share maps
2100-Celts gift 75
2000-English destroyed by Celts
1850-size 4
1800-French gift Literacy-trade to Celts for Pottery-receive 100
1650-French gift 100
1600-Collosus
1350-French gift 150-emptied their treasury
1300-library-trade French Pottery for Trade-gift Trade to Celts-receive 100-emptied their treasury also
1200-Mystism-silver caravan-share maps with Celts and French
1100-hides caran-trade Celts Myst for Construction
1000-10%luxury
975-size 5-silver to Carmartthen(demanded)150
950-Philosophy>Republic-gold caravan-revolt at END of turn
925-government-Republic...oh ya!oedo oedo oedo-hides to Orleans 56-gift Republic to Celts and French
900-temple
875-”we love” 5-disband horseman-share maps with Celts and French
825-market-gold to Carmarthen 86-end “we love” 7
800-Mathematics-Math to Celts-Construction to French
775-Myst to French-Philosophy to Celts
750-Math to France
725-colliseum-Philosophy to French-Celts gift 50
675-”we love” 7-French gift Banking-gift it to Celts
625-aquaduct-Celts gift 50-French 75
600-Astronomy
575-caravan
550-end “we love” 12-sell colliseum
525-caravan-Celts gift 100-French 150
500-caravan
475-caravan
450-caravan-Celts gift 100-French 50
425-Cope’s-trade Astronomy to Celts for Warrior Code-share maps-gift Astronomy to French
400-Medicine
350-cloth caravan
325-gift Warrior Code to French-share maps
275-The Wheel-hides caravan
250-trade French Wheel for Seafaring-receive 100-gift Wheel to Celts-this real cozy right now
225-caravan-cloth to Carmarthen-153
175-Engineering-explorer
125-caravan
100-caravan-trade Celts Seafaring for Iron Working-receive 75-gift Iron to French
75-caravan
50-Sanitation-gift it to Celts and French-hides to Kells 102
25-caravan-Celts gift 75-French 100-sell temple lux>0
---------------------------------
1AD-Shake’s
20-trade French Engineering for University-gift Medicine-University to Celts
40-Invention-”we love” 12-barbs arrive-great just in time to screw my clebration
60-sewer system-as long as current rate holds I should get Democracy in 140 -hut-elephant-NON-Engineering to Celts
80-barbs ruin the parade 13
100-harbor-”we love” 13
120-Celts gift 100-French 75
140-Democracy-revolt-bank built-govt emocracy-gotta make contact with the others-polar expedition underway-gift Invention to Celts and French
160-we love “carries over”-lovely! -Medicine and Democracy to Celts-Democracy to French
200-contact Mongols-gift 14 techs and 50-gold-share maps-won’t ally-something about the Celts although my Celtic embassy shows no contact
220-3 more techs to Mongols-still won’t ally-hut-2 barb horses-
240-Gravity
280-end ”we love” 22-built university
300-hut-25-French gift Bridge Building-gift it to Celts and Mongols
320-Economics-caravan-gift Eco to Celts,French and Mongols
340-Celts gift 25-French 50
360-caravan
380-Chemistry-caravan
400-caravan-trade Chemistry to Celts for Gunpowder-receive 25-gift Gunpowder to French and Mongols
420-caravan
440-Explosives-gift to Celts and French-gift Gunpowder to Mongols
460-Celts gift 25-French 100-Explosives to Mongols
480-Celts gift 50-French 100
500-Metallurgy-caravan
520-Sir Isaac’s-gift 50 gold and Gravity to Mongols to save my explorer
540-Navigation-gift in to Celts-trade it to French for Feudalism-receive 100-gift Feud and Nav to Mongols-contact Spanish-pay them 200 in tribute -gift 24 techs!!! -peace-share maps
560-gift Gravity to Celts and French
580-Physics-gift it to all-Celts have overlapped my city
620-Magnetims-stock exchange
640-explore sent home.#$%@ couldn’t contact the Persians
660-Electricity-diplomat-disband explorer-trade Celts Magnet for Chivalry-French gift 150”we love” 22
680-engineer-end we love 22-tech gifting
700-Refrigeration-more gifting
720-caravan-trade Electicity to French for Conscription-more gifting-Celts gift 50
740-Steam Engine
760-Engineer-French gift 150-Celts 50
780-Railroad
800-supermarket-Celts gift 50-French 150
820-Industrialization-gift it to all contacted
840-gems caravan
860-The Corporation
880-freight
900-Steel
920-freight-”we love” 21-gift RR to Mongols,Spain and Celts-Steam to French,Mongols and Spain-alliance with Mongols
960-freight-friggin research bouncing between 2 and 4 turns.Impossible to predict-last turn I was just a sliver short of filling the beaker box.This turn there is still a good 1/4 to fill -gift Steel to all contacted
1000-Refining(finally)-freight-gift Refin to all
1020-Darwin’s>Combustion>Automobile-Celts gift 25-French 50
1040-end “we love” 27-share maps with Mongols-sell sewer-can’t get 2 turns.Gotts contact Persia.Orange didn’t restart either @#$%
1060-sell aquaduct-Celts gift 25-French 50
1080-Mass Production-superhighway-gems to Paris(finally)(demanded)446
1120-Electronics-mass transit-(engineers don’t have time to clean pollution right now)-Celts gift 25-French 50
1140-pheasant>buffalo
1160-Leadership-freight
1200-Tactics-oil freight-bribe Celtic Engineer 412(NON)
1220-bribe barb knight 82(NON)
1240-Machine Tools-transport
1280-Miniaturization-freight
1300-barb leader 150-both rivers forested and railed 24 net sheilds.hmmm
1320-freight-contact Persians-pay 200 gold-peace-gift 21 techs--share maps-trade Celts Automobile for Atomic theory
1340-Computers-oil to Madrid 432-Mongols cancel alliance
1360-research lab-Mobile Warfare-disband transport and 1 supported engineer-now I get 2 turns at 60%
1380-factory-pillage road leading into city
1400-Robotics
1420-power plant
1440-Flight
1460-manufacturing plant-Celts gift 50
1480-Radio
1500-offshore platform
1510-Advanced Flight
1530-Rocketry
1550-Space Flight
1570-Plastics
1590-Nuclear Fission-Apollo-disband horseman
1620-Nuclear Power
1650-The Laser
1680-Superconductor
1710-wheat>silk(took forever) 79 sheilds
1750-Fusion Power-sell research lab
1752-sell university
1754-sell library
1756-sell mass transit(should have sold that ages ago)
1762-grass>forest 86 sheilds..kinda late but...
1764-15-3-3 ready-modules are gonna take awhile-disband settler
1768-module#1
1772-module#2-disband elephant and diplomat-use food caravan by switching to wonder-
1774-module#3 LAUNCH
every city defense,barracks,airport,tanks and fighters
1789-ARRIVAL AC

	24-08-2000 06:32									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

My spy was captured when she bribed the city that was probably a huge reason for my demise... the only civ I got an embasy with the english, was conquered by the persains

	25-08-2000 03:45									#17
	Suffering from ads?

OCC #16
Deity
MGE

Interesting scenario, Sherwood forest was a great help against the other civs but sprang a record number of Barbarians (close to 200 in total, I think). Of course The Evil City should have been called Nottingham. The Sheriff captured Carmarthen, btw, and was never in any trouble.

We had a sneaky start, bypassing the phalanxes (hehe) and buying abandoned Orleans for only 66 Gold
However, we ran into money problems anyway when we had to race for Copernicus, causing two stretching of no research.

And then the Barbarians came .....
Viking raids I guess .....
Luckily half of the mass ran dead on the sole Phalanx in The Evil City which of course couldn't be hurt
The others could not get past my hill-fortified Legion ...

AND we had to build the Hoover Dam because for some reason we did not get the option to build a Hydroplant!!!!
So no time to build a lot of caravans for the spaceship parts, we had to sac about every unit - luckily we had bribed a lot of Barbarians - and had EXACTLY 1 Gold in or coffers when the spaceship left Earth!

=============================================

AC: 1805

Monarchy: -2050
Republic: -825
Democracy: 460

Colossus: -1450
Copernicus: -250
Shakespeare: 220
Newton: 640
Darwin: 1100
+Hoover Dam: 1500
Apollo: 1710

Trade routes: -925, -825, -625

Size 12: -550
Size 21: 460 (Size 24 in 520: Democracy during the WLtXD! run)

Trade: -1250
Construction: -825
Sanitation: 160
Refrigeration: 780

Automobile: 1220
Computers: 1560
Space Flight: 1700

============================================

-4000 Embassy (E), going into the mountains!
-3950 E Phalanx
-3900 Embassy (F), Br Orleans (undefended!; Spy survives) --> Bronze Working,
Alphabet to French, Peace (F)
-3800 Palace
-3750 Pottery (h)
-3600 Legion (h)
-3550 Phalanx
-3500 50 Gold (h)
-3400 Granary
-3350 S2, 50 Gold (h)
-3250 Phalanx
-3200 Br B Archers (61) (NONE)
-3150 50 Gold (h)
-3100 Celts, Peace (E), Tr Ceremonial Burial (C)
-3050 Temple, Chariot (NONE) (h)
-3000 Br B Horsemen (41)
-2900 S3
-2800 Writing, Tr Code of Laws (C)
-2750 Library
-2650 E Phalanx
-2600 B Leader (150)
-2550 25 Gold (h)
-2400 E Phalanx
-2250 E Warrior
-2100 Monarchy, S4, Revolution, E Phalanx, Tr Currency (C)
-2050 MONARCHY
-1850 St Horseback Riding (E), E Warrior
-1800 St Map Making (E)
-1750 S5
-1700 E Horsemen
-1650 Peace (E)
-1550 di Legions
-1500 di Phalanx
-1450 COLOSSUS, S6
-1400 Mysticism
-1350 Marketplace
-1250 War (C), St Trade (C)
-1200 Hides
-1100 Hides to The Evil Castle (d,80)
-1050 Beads, Literacy
-1000 Pheasant into Buffalo, (PYRAMIDS-F)
-975 Gold
-950 C Horsemen, Literacy to F
-925 Beads to Orleans (d,96)
-900 Philosophy, The Republic
-875 Hides
-850 Revolution, (HANGING GARDENS-C)
-825 Hides, REPUBLIC, Hides to The Evil Castle (d,108), C Horsemen, St Construction (C)
-800 Gold to Tours (d,186), The Republic to E
-775 Settlers, S6, WLtCD, Mathematics, Hides to The Evil Castle (d,104), (LIGHTHOUSE-S)
-750 S7
-725 Cloth
-675 Colosseum, WLtCD
-650 Astronomy, S8
-625 Aquaduct, S9, Cloth to Lyons (d,184), Tr The Wheel (E)
-600 S10, (GREAT LIBRARY-C)
-575 Beads, S11
-550 S12, Sold Colosseum, War (F), F Horsemen
-525 Food, WLtCD cancelled, F Horsemen
-475 Food, University,
* Science on hold *
-425 Food, Beads to Lyons (d,192), Tr Engineering (E)
-400 Spanish, 50 Gold to S, Peace (S), Tr Iron Working (S), Tr Warrior Code (S), Maps (S)
-375 Cloth
-325 Food, F Horsemen
-300 B Leader, 2 F Chariots
-275 Food
* Science resumed *
-250 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY, Cloth to Paris (d,220)
-225 Banking, 2 F Catapults
-200 University
-175 B Leader (150), Br F Settler (NONE) (224)
-150 Bank
-125 Bridge Building, St Polytheism (C)
-100 Coal, sold Temple
-50 Food, St Seafaring (C)
0 Food, Economics, F Chariot
80 Food, Medicine
100 F Diplomat
120 F Chariot
160 Food, Sanitation, F Catapult
* Science on hold *
220 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE, (KING RICARD'S CRUSADE-F)
240 F Settlers, F Catapult
260 Stock Exchange, F Chariot
280 WLtCD, F Settlers
300 Sewer System, S13
* Science resumed *
320 S14
340 Harbor, S15, di Settlers
360 Coal, S16
380 Theory of Gravity, S17, F Chariot
400 Beads, S18, Tr Invention (E)
420 S19, Br B Legion (NONE), Br B Trireme (NONE), Medicine to C, Peace (C)
440 Food, S20
460 Democracy, DEMOCRACY, S21 (GREAT WALL-P)
480 S22, Beads to Lyons (d,146)
500 S23
520 Food, Navigation, S24, B Leader (150), Coal to Cardiff (d,256)
540 WLtPD cancelled, B Leader (150)
560 Food, Physics
600 Food
620 Magnetism
640 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE, B Leader 150
660 Gunpowder, Persians, War (P), Embassy (P), Navigation to E
680 Coal
700 Embassy (S)
720 War (C), C Catapult
740 Electricity, (LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP-C)
780 Refrigeration, F Catapult
800 Supermarket, (MARCO POLO'S EMBASSY-F)
820 Chemistry, C Horsemen
860 Explosives
880 Food, Br B Crusaders (81), di Phalanx
900 Steam Engine
920 Food, F Catapult
940 F Chariot (MAGELLAN'S EXPEDITION-S),(ORACLE-P),
* Large horde of Barbarians in Sherwood forest *
960 Engineers, Railroad, Br B Elephant (NONE) (81)
1000 Food
1020 Industrialization, Peace (C), Tr Feudalism (C)
1080 The Corporation
* Science on hold *
1100 DARWIN'S VOYAGE, Refining, Combustion, WLtPD, Coal to Rheims (d,154), F Catapult
* Science resumed *
1120 S25(!), B Leader (150)
1140 Factory, S26
1160 Steel, S27, F Chariot
1180 Beads, S28
1200 (STATUE OF LIBERTY-F), S29
1220 Automobile, WLtPD cancelled, F Catapult, Beads to Lyons (d,148)
1260 Electronics, Knights (NONE) (h), B Leader (150)
1300 Conscription, Tr Chivalry (C)
1340 Leadership, B Leader (150)
1380 Tactics
1420 * Dozens of Barbarian Musketeers and Cannons appear SW in the forest (3 messages) *
1440 Machine Tools, 50 Gold (h)
1460 WLtPD
1480 S30
1500 HOOVER DAM, Miniaturization, S31, 100 Gold (h), (WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE-F)
1510 S31
1520 Offshore Platform, S32
1530 Mass Production, WLtPD cancelled
1540 Mass Transit
1550 Beads, Br B Musketeers (61)
1560 Computers, di Musketeers, Br B Musketeers (61)
1570 Research Lab
* Another band of Barbarians E in the forest *
1580 Oil, Mobile Warfare, Plains/r into Grassland(s)/r, sold Sewer System
1590 Food
1600 Food, Robotics, F Cannon
1610 Food, br B Musketeers (NONE,61), di Musketeers, (ADAM SMITH'S TRADING CO.-C)
1620 Manufacturing Plant, Flight, Br B Musketeers, Beads to Madrid (d,448)
1630 Food, 2 F Chariots, Br B Musketeers (NONE,61)
1640 Radio, Br B Musketeers (NONE,61)
* French changed from Communism to Democracy, boosting our trade *
1650 B Leader (150)
1660 Advanced Flight, Peace (F)
1670 Br B Musketeers (NONE) (61), Peace (P)
1680 Rocketry, Oil to Kells (95)
1690 Grass/r into Hills/r, B Leader (150), Br B Cannon (NONE,82), Br 2 B Musketeers (NONE,2x61)
1700 Space Flight
1710 APOLLO PROGRAM, Br B Cannon (NONE,82), di Crusaders, (EIFFEL TOWER-F)
1720 SSS
1730 SSS, Plastics, Hills mined, di NONE Horsemen
1740 SSS, Grass(s)/r into Forest/r, di Musketeers
* shields now 80 *
1750 SSC * Barbarian Riflemen/Artillery in SW Forest *
1752 SSS, Atomic Theory
1754 SSS
1756 SSS, Br B Riflemen (102), di Musketeers
1758 SSC, Nuclear Fission
1760 SSS, Br B Artillery (NONE,102)
1762 SSS
1764 SSS, Nuclear Power
1766 SSS, Br B Artillery (NONE,102)
1768 SSS
1770 SSS, The Laser
1772 SSS
1774 SSS
1776 SSS, Di Cannon (NONE), War (E), E Dragoons, War (C,ally to E)
1778 SSC, E Cannon, di Legion (NONE), Tr Theology (F), Tr Monotheism (F)
1780 SSC, di Trireme
1782 SSC, Fusion Power, sold Research Lab, di Chariot (NONE), di Musketeers (NONE), Science on hold
1784 SSC, sold University, di Engineers, di Elephant, Musketeers, Artillery (all NONE)
1786 SSM, sold Library, di 2 Musketeers, Archers, Knights, Settlers, Artillery (all NONE)
1788 SSM, sold Manufactory, di Musketeers (NONE), bought Sun Tzu (
* 1 gold left *
* we have 1 Riflemen, 1 Musketeers, 1 Vet Spy and 1 Settlers (all NONE) *
1790 LAUNCH the LADY MARIAN, E Cavalry
1791 Barracks
* French Settlers and Diplomat are trying to get in *
1792 Armor, E Cannon
1793 Armor, E Cannon
1794 Forest/r back into Plains/r, Tr Genetic Engineering (F, for Superconductor), Peace (C,E), (SETI PROGRAM-F)
1795 S31 (Famine)
1796 MICHELANGELO'S CHAPEL, S30 (Famine)
1797 Aquaduct
1798 Sewer System, E Sneak Cannon
1799 Library, E Cavalry, E Cannon
* French from Worshipful to Hostile *
1800 * French demand 1000 Gold --> * War (F), F Cannon, F Explorer, B Artillery
1802 CURE FOR CANCER
1803 WLtPD, E Cavalry, F Cavalry, F Cannon
1804 SUN TZU'S WAR ACADEMY, S31, E Cannon
1805 ALPHA CENTAURI

Score: 376 (48%)

* Never made contact with the Mongols *



------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

	25-08-2000 10:02									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hi everyone!

Just wanted to check in. I will be unable to participate in these OCC's right now. I am in South Korea for a "business" trip until the middle of September.

I look forward to catching up and contributing later next month.

take care!

	25-08-2000 12:27									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I made a horror of a start, not even popping the displayed hut, losing my Spy on bribing the city of Orleans and unable to get the Palace for several turns. Trade was particularly late.

An interesting happening was the split-up of the Celts fairly early on into the more powerful rebel Greeks and the weaker loyal faction – a pity as I had established a stable alliance with the Celts who had destroyed the English. There was also some tight defence against the Greeks at the time of SS-parts building resulting in some delays. Some very profitable trade routes later in the game using the Transport resulted in a maximum bonus of 1240 gold with Susa on the Spanish continent. Middle game exploration of “Antarctica” yielded a useful Crusader and Musketeer besides usable gold.

2.42 Deity

AC: 1823

Monarchy: -425
Republic: -25
Democracy: 620

Colossus: -2200
Copernicus: 200
Shakespeare: 460
Newton: 880
Darwin: 1380
Apollo: 1756

Trade routes: -75, -25, 1

Size 12: 140
Size 21: 700

Trade: -200
Construction: -1350
Sanitation: 260
Refrigeration: 1120
Automobile: 1420
Computers: 1610
Space Flight: 1754


4000 BC Bribe English Phalanx, Bribe Orleans: rechristened Tonicity (Spy captured) get Bronze Working hut=Chariot
3800 BC hut=50
3750 BC Palace built
3650 BC Celts: exchange Mapmaking peace
3600 BC Warrior built
3550 BC French: peace gift of Horseback Riding Hut=chariot
3500 BC hut=Barb
3450 BC Phalanx survives BarbHorse and vetted Hut=50
3400 BC Settler survives Nottingham Phalanx vetted
3300 BC Hut=50
3200 BC English: ceasefire
3100 BC Hut=Mathematics
2850 BC Celts: exchange Currency
2500 BC BarbLeader=150
2250 BC BarbLeader=150
2200 BC Colossus
2100 BC BarbLeader=150
1750 BC Code of Laws Celts: exchange Writing
1550 BC Trireme built
1500 BC Library
1450 BC English destroyed by Celts
1350 BC Celts: Alliance for war with French, gift of Construction Hut=Literacy
1100 BC Celts: civil war split into Celtic and Greek factions!! L
1000 BC Greeks: peace
975 BC Greeks: Literacy
950 BC Ceremonial Burial Celts: 75
925 BC Colosseum
900 BC Mongols: peace, tribute=100
875 BC Mongols: Code of Laws
775 BC Mongols: Writing
750 BC Diplo commissioned Celts: 150
650 BC Mongols: Currency
500 BC Monarchy rev Mongols: exchange Mysticism tribute: 150 Celts: Mysticism +50
425 BC Govt. Monarchy Start WLTKD Persians: Mapmaking for Alliance, no gift
375 BC Greeks: Embassy
350 BC Persians: Construction
250 BC French: Embassy Spanish: Construction for Alliance, share maps
200 BC Trade
175 BC Beads Caravan built
150 BC Gold caravan built Celts: Literacy + 50. Embassy
100 BC Persians: 25
75 BC Beads to Lyons (demanded)=100
50 BC Republic rev
25 BC Govt. Republic Hides to Evil Castle (not demanded)=68 Persians: Trade +50

AD1 Hides to Carmarthan (not demanded)=54 Persians: Trade + 150
20 Spanish: 150 Celts & Greek: Trade
40 Spanish: Literacy
80 Hides to Carmarthan (not demanded)=80 Hides to Cordoba (demanded)=201
100 Philosophy
120 Cloth to Lyons (demanded)=204 Spanish: Republic + 200 Celts & Persians: Philosophy Greeks: exchange Wheel share maps
140 Pop=12 Medicine End WLTCD Celts: Wheel French: Astronomy Spanish: Philosophy Persians: Philosophy
160 Gold to Madrid (demanded)=346
180 Engineering Greeks & Spanish: Engineering Celts: Republic Persians: Monarchy
200 Copernicus
260 Sanitation Celts: Engineering
300 Celts: Sanitation Spanish: 100
320 Sewer System Celts: Astronomy Greeks: Sanitation Spanish: Astronomy
340 University French: War
380 Gems to Cordoba (demanded)=368
400 Banking Celts: Banking Spanish: exchange Bridge Building Persians: Sanitation Greeks: Bridge Building
420 Celts: Bridge Building Spanish: 100 Persians: share maps
460 Shakespeare's Theatre
480 French: war Spanish: 200 Start WLTCD
500 University built
540 Invention Spanish: 200
560 Celts: 150 for war on Mongols, exchange Seafaring
600 Democracy rev built Harbor Coal to Cordoba (demanded)=290
620 Govt. Democracy
640 Sell Colosseum
660 Economics
700 Pop=21 End WLTPD Sell temple Spanish: exchange Iron Working
720 Chemistry
760 Hut=50
780 Gunpowder French: ceasefire
840 Explosives
880 Isaac Newton's College
900 Metallurgy
920 Hut=Musketeer
940 Navigation, built Stock Exchange
960 Coal-caravan built
980 Physics
1000 Hut=Crusader
1020 Engineer built
1060 Electricity Spanish exchange Chivalry
1120 Refrigeration Disband supported Phalanx
1140 BarbLeader=150
1160 Steam Engine French: peace
1180 French: Physics + share maps
1200 Railroad
1240 Industrialization Spanish: 200
1300 Corporation Greeks: alliance for war with Celts, +50
1360 Steel
1380 Darwin's Voyage get Refining Combustion, Coal to Lyons (demanded)=128 Spanish: 200
1420 Automobile Start WLTPD
1440 Superhighways French: exchange Leadership End WLTPD (Trireme Away)
1460 Mass Production Greeks: 25
1500 Electronics Spanish: exchange Pottery
1510 Disband Trireme, Spanish:200
1520 Conscription built Transport Start WLTPD Greeks: 25
1550 Tactics Spanish: 200
1570 Max size=26 End WLTPD
1580 Machine Tools, Gold to Valencia (demanded)=988 Greeks: 100
1590 Oil to Susa (not demanded)=420
1610 Computers Sell Sewer System Dye to Marseilles (demanded)=266
1620 Sell Aqueduct Greeks: 100
1630 Mobile Warfare (Celts & Mongols sign pact against Merrymen) Gold to Susa (demanded)=1240
1640 Robotics Greeks: 100
1650 Factory (Settler starts changing grasslands to forest)
1660 Flight, Copper to Cordoba (demanded)=336
1680 Radio Greeks: 100 Spanish: gift of Monotheism
1690 Engineer built Spanish: gift of Communism
1700 Spanish: gift of Feudalism
1710 Advanced Flight Greeks: 100
1720 Spanish: 25
1730 Celts destroyed by Greeks
1740 Rocketry
1752 Power Plant Greeks: 50 Spanish: 150
1754 Space Flight
1756 Apollo
1760 Plastics
1766 Atomic Theory Greeks cancel alliance
1772 Nuclear Fission
1774 Greeks: War, Bribe Greek Armor
1776 Armor built Mongols: peace Spanish: keep alliance by declaring war on French
1778 Greeks war Mongols
1780 Nuclear Power
1784 (Spanish capturing French cities)
1788 Laser s15 Disband Engineer (#3) Greeks peace Mongols
1792 Disband Transport
1794 Bribe Mongol Diplo (146) blocking path & threatening sabotage
1796 Superconductor
1800 Spanish captures Rheims - only far away Besancion remains! French peace Spanish
1802 Disband Diplo & Settler
1804 Disband Diplo Crusader & Chariot Sell University
1806 Fusion Power
1808 Launch 15-3-3-1-1-1 SS, French: Cease-fire Greeks: peace
1809 Barracks built
1810 Armor built, Spanish: Nuclear fission, gift 150
1811 Armor built, Spanish steal Fusion Power but I their keep (worshipful) alliance
1812 Greek Diplo destroys Marketplace; I declare War
1813 Nuclear Plant, Sell Power Plant
1814 Stealth
1815 Built SAM
1816 Stealth Fighter built
1818 Mass Transit
1819 Cruise Missile targeting Evil Capital
1820 Cruise Missile -“-
1821 Cruise Missile at advancing Greek Armor & Howitzer
1822 Stealth Fighter
1823 Landed AC

Edit: corrected Trade routes date in Highlights
[This message has been edited by tonic (edited August 25, 2000).]

	29-08-2000 14:52									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Geeze, that was a tough one!!! who ever designed it should be publicly flogged, ha ha!!

So, I struggled at the start to gain any kind of technological superiority, that didn't happen until after machine tools!!

I had a couple of hair raising moments with some nasty AI, but i ended up paying them off with cash for a quiet life... It certain beats being set upon by cavalry and musketeers!?!?

Anyway, the basics...
2.42 Diety

Republic 1650bc
Democracy 620ad

Colossus 1200bc
Observatory 175bc
Theatre 120ad
Newtons college 680ad
Darwins voyage 1440ad
Apollo 1710ad

1st Trade 725bc
2nd 575bc
3rd 475bc

Trade 2200bc
Cons. 120ad
Sanitation 360ad
Refridgeration 940ad
Auto 1360ad
Computers 1530ad
Space Flight 1650ad

Size 12 220ad
Size 21 600ad

The log...
4000bc Phalanx bribed, NE road taken, Carmarthen Bribed
Bronze Working from Celts
3900bc 50 (hut) archers (hut)
3850bc Palace!!!
3750bc Chariot (NONE) (hut), currency (hut)
3700bc Archers (none) (hut)
3500bc warrior code (hut)
3350bc Barbarians (hut)
3200bc chariot (none) (hut)
3050bc stole code of laws from French (escaped safely!!)
2650bc Cere Bury
2200bc Trade!!! (hut)
1850bc The Republic Stolen from French!!!
1650bc Republic established!!
1400bc monarchy...
1200bc Colossus!!!!!
875bc literacy and alliance with french!!!
barbs land near carmarthen
825bc Mysticism!!
800bc 150g for barb leader!!
775bc Caravan (silk)
725bc 1st Trade, Silk to Evil Castle, wanted 186rev
700bc War with Celts for 200 from french
Philosophy, Medicine (free)
Temple
675bc WLTCD (3)
650bc caravan (hides)
625bc caravan (coal)
575bc 2nd Trade coal unwanted to Evil Castle, 86 rev
Marketplace
Astronomy
550bc WLTCD cancelled (7)
500bc Caravan
Writing (stolen)
475bc 3rd Trade unwanted hides to Kells, 76rev
450bc caravan
375bc caravan, got a race on with the persians for Obersatory?!!?
300bc caravan
250bc caravan
200bc caravan
175bc Observatory!!!!!, ha ha, showed them Persians!!!
75bc Theory of Gravity
120ad Theatre!!!!!!!
WLTCD (8)
Construction
160ad AquaDuct!!!
220ad Library
WLTCD ends (12)
280ad University!!
exchanged techs with celts, english and french!
300ad sanitation
360ad exchanged sanitation for invention with french
420ad Sewers!!!
WLTCD (12)
460ad Tireme
600ad Democracy!! revolution...
WLTCD maxed out (21)
620ad Democracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
640ad war with Persians!!!
war with Spanish... do i spell or something!?!
680ad Newtons College!!!!!!
700ad exchanged nearly all techs!!
musketeers (none) (hut)
740ad explosives
760ad engineers
780ad physics
820ad magnetism
860ad metalurgy
900ad electricity
940ad Refridgeration!!!!!!
980ad steam engine
1000ad wine to Marseille, 275 rev
1020ad Railroad
1060ad Industrialisation
1100ad corporation
1140ad steel
1180ad Electronics
1220ad refining
1240ad 250 gift from french!!
supermarket!!
WLTPD (19)
1300ad Combustion
WLTPD cancelled (22)
1360ad Automobile!!!
1400ad 275 rev from trade
1420ad mass production
1440ad Darwins Voyage!!
Leadership
tactics
1480ad french get flight-Bastards!!
machine tools
1510ad Miniaturisation!
1530ad Computers!!!!!!!
1540ad research lab!!
1550ad mobile warfare
1560ad flight from persians for computers
1570ad robotics
125 gift from french
1580ad factory
1590ad radio
sold sewers
1600ad hydro plant
1610ad adv flight
1630ad rocketry
1650ad Space Flight!!!!
manu plant
1660ad 250 gift from french
1670ad offshore platform
1710ad Apollo!!!!!
1720ad Structural 1
Atomic Theory from spanish
plastics from french
1730ad lose alliance with french,
sneak attack (none) chariot lost,
1740ad 250 to regain alliance...
nuclear fission
1754ad nuke power!
1760ad laser
1772ad Super Conductor!!!!
Structural 15
1774ad module 1
1778ad Comp 1
1782ad comp 2
1784ad module 2
1786ad Comp 3
1788ad comp 4
1790ad comp 5
1792ad comp 6
1794ad sold manu plant
1796ad module 3
Fussion Power!!
LAUNCH 15-3-3-1-1-1 ETA: 1811ad
6 Riflemen
4 Alpine Troops
3 Fighters
and a bribed cavalry... Just in case

1811ad Landing on AC!!!!!
281 points, 36% Robin Hood the Cruel!!!

[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited August 29, 2000).]

	29-08-2000 18:09									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

hmm, in nearly all the logs to date, I was generally ahead of everyone until somewhere between Ike's college and refrigeration, at least in terms of reaching target wonders and city sizes. And i was getting a tech every 2 turns like everyone else post-Ike's. It will be nice to see the comparison table to see it all together a little more clearly. Unless someone sees something different, I'll assume that I'm not getting as many techs from the AI as everyone else. I know that I never did make diplomatic contact with 3 of the AI, and as some may recognize from another thread I started, I've been trying to figure out if and how that may hinder me, since I always seem to have trouble finding all of the AI. O well, I'm sure I'll eventually figure it out

------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

	29-08-2000 20:39									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I finally finished last night. I went to the East and settled Carmarthen. I did OK, but the French were a pain. Landed in 1877. Very average I guess. No log. I'll try that next time.

	29-08-2000 23:51									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Comparison Table now available. I also hadn't posted my own log yet, so here it is:

Monarchy: -2050
Republic: -925
Democracy: 540

Colossus: -1850
Copernicus: -200
Shakespeare: 60
Newton: 440
Darwin: 1020
Apollo: 1570

Trade routes: -1050, -900, -725

Trade: -1800
Construction: -1800
Sanitation: -175
Refrigeration: 800
Automobile: 1040
Computers: 1360
Space Flight: 1560

Size 11: -600
Size 19: 300

4000 BC Embassy English
Bribe English Phalanx (187 gold)
Embassy Celts
Bribe Carmarthen (127 gold); take Bronze Working
3950 BC Hut: Horsemen
3850 BC Hut: Barbarians
3800 BC Hut: Barbarians
Celts: peace
English: cease fire
3750 BC Palace
3700 BC Hut: Currency
3600 BC Hut: 25 gold
French: peace; trade Code of Laws
3500 BC Warrior
3400 BC Hut: Legion
3300 BC Embassy French
Celts: alliance; gift 25 gold
3150 BC French: tribute Horseback Riding
3050 BC Celts: trade Ceremonial Burial
2500 BC French: trade Map Making
Celts: share maps
2400 BC Hut: Legion
2300 BC Hut: Legion
2050 BC Monarchy, revolution
Gov: Monarchy
Celts: gift 50 gold
French: tribute 50 gold
2000 BC Hut: 50 gold
1900 BC Celts: gift 50 gold
1850 BC Colossus
1800 BC Hut: Trade
Celts: trade Construction; gift 25 gold
1550 BC French: trade Writing; alliance; share maps; gift 25 gold
English: trade Mysticism; peace; share maps
Celts: gift 50 gold
1500 BC Library
1350 BC Build Silk Caravan
1250 BC Literacy
1050 BC Celts: share maps; gift 50 gold
Build Hides Caravan
Silk to Lyons (demanded): 150 gold
1000 BC Republic, revolution
Bribe French Trireme (92 gold)
975 BC Temple
950 BC English: tribute 50 gold
925 BC Gov: Republic
Start WLTCD, size 4
900 BC Build Coal Caravan
Hides to Kells (not demanded): 50 gold
French: gift 50 gold
875 BC French: gift 50 gold
850 BC Marketplace
Hut: Barbarians
825 BC End WLTCD, size 7
Celts: gift 25 gold
775 BC Hut: Pottery
725 BC Mathematics
Colosseum
Coal to Lyons (not demanded): 112 gold
Start WLTCD, size 7
675 BC Aqueduct
Mongols: alliance; share maps
600 BC Astronomy
End WLTCD, size 11
575 BC Build Gold Caravan
550 BC Celts: gift 50 gold
French: gift 50 gold
500 BC Spanish: peace; trade Wheel; share maps
475 BC Persians: peace; share maps
French: trade Philosophy; gift 25 gold
400 BC Engineering
Hut: Barbarians
375 BC French: trade Medicine, Banking; gift 50 gold
Celts: trade Iron Working
225 BC Celts: gift 25 gold
French: gift 50 gold
English: alliance; share maps; gift 50 gold
Mongols: cancel alliance
200 BC Copernicus' Observatory
175 BC Sanitation
125 BC Celts: gift 100 gold
French: cancel alliance
Spanish: alliance; gift Warrior Code
Persians: alliance
50 BC University
40 AD Sold Colosseum
60 AD Shakespeare's Theatre
Start WLTCD, size 11
Sold Temple
80 AD Theory of Gravity
100 AD Sewer System
Celts: gift 100 gold
Spanish: gift 75 gold
Persians: gift 25 gold
140 AD Bank
Gold to Madrid (demanded): 504 gold
160 AD Seafaring
180 AD Harbor
Spanish: gift 25 gold
220 AD University
240 AD Chemistry
240 AD Settler killed by barbs
260 AD Barb Leader: 150 gold
280 AD Spanish: gift 50 gold
English: cancel alliance
300 AD Economics
End WLTCD, size 19
360 AD Invention
Spanish: gift 50 gold
400 AD Spanish: gift 50 gold
420 AD Explosives
440 AD Isaac Newton's College
460 AD Explosives
Celts: trade Bridge Building
French: war
480 AD Engineer
500 AD Democracy, revolution
520 AD Engineer
540 AD Gov: Democracy
560 AD Build Wine Caravan
580 AD Metallurgy
Celts: gift 50 gold
Spanish: gift 100 gold
French: peace
600 AD Stock Exchange
Persians: gift 150 gold
620 AD Navigation
Spanish: gift 150 gold
Persians: gift 50 gold
660 AD Physics
Spanish: gift 150 gold
Persians: gift 50 gold
Start WLTPD, size 17
680 AD Hut: 50 gold
Celts: gift 50 gold
Spanish: gift 100 gold
700 AD Magnetism
740 AD End WLTPD, size 20
760 AD Build Dye Caravan
Electricity
Spanish: gift 50 gold
800 AD Refrigeration
Spanish: gift 50 gold
840 AD Supermarket
Steam Engine
880 AD Railroad
920 AD Engineer
Industrialization
940 AD Spanish: gift Polytheism
960 AD Corporation
Persians: gift 100 gold
English: war
1000 AD Steel
1020 AD Darwin's Voyage: Refining, Combustion
1040 AD Automobile
Celts: gift 25 gold
French: alliance; gift 200 gold
Start WLTPD, size 19
1060 AD Superhighways
English: peace
1080 AD Electronics
Dye to Seville (demanded): 792 gold
1100 AD Build Dye Freight
Mass Production
French: trade Conscription
1140 AD Feudalism
Wine to Karakorum (demanded): 885 gold
1160 AD Chivalry
1200 AD Engineer
1220 AD Leadership
Barb Leader: 150 gold
End WLTPD, size 25
1240 AD Factory
1260 AD Tactics
1300 AD Machine Tools
French: gift Monotheism
Celts: gift 100 gold
Spanish: gift 50 gold
1320 AD Sold Sewer System
1340 AD Power Plant
Miniaturization
Sold Aqueduct
Dye to Salamanca (demanded): 1098 gold
1360 AD Computers
Hut: 100 gold
1380 AD Research Lab
1400 AD Mobile Warfare
1420 AD Offshore Platform
1440 AD Build Gold Freight
Robotics
1460 AD Build Wine Freight
Barb Leader: 150 gold
1480 AD Flight
1500 AD Manufacturing Plant
1510 AD Radio
Wine to Arbela (demanded): 460 gold
1530 AD Advanced Flight
Gold to Barcelona (demanded): 840 gold
1540 AD Rocketry
1550 AD French: cancel alliance
1560 AD Space Flight
SPanish: trade Atomic Theory
1570 AD Apollo Program
1580 AD English: war
1600 AD Plastics
1610 AD French: war
1640 AD Nuclear Fission
1670 AD Nuclear Power
1700 AD Laser
1710 AD Engineers killed
1730 AD Superconductor
1760 AD Engineer
1762 AD Fusion Power
1770 AD French take Carmarthen (1 turn before launch)

	30-08-2000 14:39									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Once again my Scenario claims it's own body count, sorry guys!!!!!!!! i almost got stuffed by the french too, i ended up paying them off (250gold) to keep the peace?!?!

Paul, do you have a scenario from Tom yet for next week? i might be able to rush my next one through if not?

	30-08-2000 15:42									#25
	Support Apolyton

Good on you, Oldman. Keep that fertile mind of yours going - great work. Makes me want to get into the fine art of scenario-making myself.

	30-08-2000 17:18									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I don't have a scenario for next week, but I usually only get them shortly before I need them. I guess I should ask now if anybody is working on a scenario for next week.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited August 31, 2000).]

	30-08-2000 18:28									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm working on one myself, and i think i should have a free night tonight!!! it's an interesting start, but might turn out to be a real tough-one, and i'm sure you'll all just love it!!!!!!! ha ha!??!!?!? i'll keep you all posted...

	31-08-2000 02:13									#28
	Full PM-box? Change here!

As I mentioned to Oldman in another thread, I've got 3 scenario ideas - I just haven't created them. The first one shouldn't take me too long. I'll make sure I have it ready for next week.

Q. The scenario I have in mind will have to be a saved game. Am I correct in thinking that MGE can load scenarios saved by v242?

	31-08-2000 09:47									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

As far as I know, yes.

	01-09-2000 19:49									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm actually ashamed to post this - it is a total catalogue of errors and an object lesson in how not to play OCC -- I failed to keep my alliances -- I nearly got wiped out twice -- I didn't build enough caravans -- I bribed attacking units and reduced my production below 80 when I was building the SS -- and probably a lot of other nasty and unfortunate happenings that should not be exposed in front of the impressionable young ...
======================
What a diabolical game - everything I did seemed to go wrong - clearly "Must try harder!"

OCC#16 - v2.42 - deity

AC 1855

Monarchy -1850
Republic -225
Democracy 1020

Colossus -1600
Copernicus 20
Shakespeare 400
Newton 1000
Darwin 1510
Apollo 1784

Trade#1 -800
Trade#2 -675
Trade#3 -625

Size 12 -25
Size 21 580

---------------------
It's so tempting to bribe two of these phalanges, but discretion rules ... (for now)
Which way to go?
Let's try some diplomacy first ...
---------------------
4000 Embassy established; failed to impress the sherriff; both Easterly routes seem favoured so being contrary I'm going SW ...; Phalanx bribed: 187g
3950 Oh goody, the French, I hate the French, and I guess they will soon hate me; French declare war; Establish Embassy with French; Bribe Lyons: 87g; Rename Liverpool
3850 Palace
3800 hut: Map Making
3750 Embassy with Celts; Peace; Code of Laws
3250 Peace with French
3350 hut: Legion (supported)
2150 Ceremonial Burial
2050 Celts: Monarchy; Revolution - RATS!!! no change of government!!
1850 MONARCHY established - what a disaster!!!!
1600 COLOSSUS
1000 Barbarian: 150g
0975 Celts demand we declare war on English - we decline - they demand 50g - we decline and ask for a gift - they give us 150g!
0950 Steal TRADE from Celts
0925 Marketplace; Size 4
0900 Steal Literacy from French
0850 Steal Pottery from French
0800 HIDES TO THE EVIL CASTLE: 72g
0775 Mysticism
0675 SILVER TO THE EVIL CASTLE: 84g; Steal Seafaring from French
0625 DYE TO KELLS: 92g
== log lost in system crash ==
0525 Celts: CONSTRUCTION & 150g
0450 Hides to The Evil Castle: 76g - I'm racing for Philo ...
0350 Alliance with French
0325 Philosophy -> Medicine; French: The Republic & Writing; English 100g tribute
0275 Celts: 100g; English: 100g
0250 Colosseum; Revolution
0225 REPUBLIC (this time as advertised - thanks oedo)
0200 Library; WLCD starts @ 5
0150 allies: 100g
0100 allies: 75g;
0025 WLCD stops @ 12
------
0020 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY; allies: Warrior Code & 25g
0040 Engineering
0140 SANITATION; Gems to Orleans: 342g; allies: 50g
0200 allies: 100g
0300 Celts: Invention & 150g
0400 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE; WLCD starts @ 12; Cloth to Paris: 90g (demand just changed)
0420 Sewer System
0460 University
0480 Bridge Building
0560 Theory of Gravity
0580 WLCD stops @ 21
0640 Magnetism
0660 Gold to Kells: 285g
0700 Gunpowder
0720 Gems to Orleans: 252g; French dissolve alliance
0760 Metalurgy
0820 Electricity
0840 Celts: Banking & 75g
0860 Persians: Peace; Gems to Seville: 630g
0880 REFRIGERATION
0920 Celts: 75g
0960 Mongols: Peace; Mega Science dump
1000 Chemistry; ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE; Celts: Democracy & 150g; Revolution
1020 DEMOCRACY
1060 Explosives
1180 Railroad
1240 Economics
1300 Industrialisation
1340 Leeds destroyed (3 poisons + chariot attack)
1440 The Corporation
1510 Refining; DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Combustion; AUTOMOBILE
1530 Electronics; Superhighways
1550 Gems to Paris: 686g
1630 Gems to Paris: 740g
1730 COMPUTERS
1740 City Walls; Gold to Cardiff: 710g
1750 Research Lab; Mobile Warfare
1758 Flight
1762 Barbarian Leader: 150g
1768 Manufacturing Plant
1782 SPACE FLIGHT
1784 APOLLO PROGRAM
1820 War with the English & French - Oops!
1830 My valiant Spyette is captured having sabotaged French Artillery
1838 Now at war with the Celts as well ....
1840 Launch 15-3-3-1-1-1 for eta 1855 treasury 4g only one unit left if I can survive another couple of turns ...
I did - landing 1855 ......

Don't follow this example,

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"