08-07-2001 22:49									#1
	Civ I's Useless Copy-Protections Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Civ I's copy protection was useless... For Civ III's sake, I hope that if it utilizes copy-protection it does so in a better way than:

"A usurper claims you... etc... What advance is this (shows picture of a man holding a hammer)
a: iron working
b: Philosophy
c: quantam physics

The answer is A. Any civ Player would know this... frankly anyone with a brain would know this. However, if you got it wrong, all you did was lose your units; and the usurpers claims stopped by 0 AD... (I think)

	08-07-2001 23:04									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I find it annoying when games require the CD to be in the drive. What's the point of a full installation?

It's not as if requiring the CD will prevent anyone from copying the whole CD and then using it.

	08-07-2001 23:31									#3
	Support Apolyton

I'm still trying to decide on how should I get Civ3.

I guess that I will buy it(a rare thing ), unless it will be a failure. In this case i'll just download it or i'll buy an illegal version.
So Sid, make sure the game is good.

	09-07-2001 02:33									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

lol Civ 1 copy protection is as dumb as Dune II's You can guess your way out of both of them. If they think those pirates are dumb they are sorely mistaken. It's not as if 5 year olds play civlization

I actually don't want to see any protection for Civilization III. I really don't think it affects sales as much as they are made out to be. People still get pirated copies so it doens't really do much (except to stop the casual gamer from copying his/her friend's game). Lately, there have been way too many problems for legitimate purchasers. The last few games that I have followed (not strategy games) caused more problems than anything. The games won't work in many older CD-ROMs and it was really a mess. In fact, one of the recommendation on one of the fixes was to disable copy protection

If the game is good it will sell on its merit; if it sucks it won't. It's that simple... besides I expect most civ III players to be older and hence they can afford the game (those that pirate are the younger ones that can't afford games)...

KoalaBear33

	09-07-2001 10:01									#5
	Got spare money?

I have no problems with needing the CD-ROM in a drive the whole time I'm playing the game. I don't need the drive for anything else, so I'm not bothered.

Of course you can never defeat pirates regardless of protection schemes. Aeons ago companies have tried to use things like screwy diskette formatting and so forth to thwart pirates. All they accomplished was annoying legit users.

	09-07-2001 11:28									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by KoalaBear33 It's not as if 5 year olds play civlization

You obviously haven't been reading some of the posts around here. I'm not going to name names.

	09-07-2001 12:13									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Isn't it late - or more precisely, early - in Montreal?

	09-07-2001 12:54									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You obviously haven't been reading some of the posts around here. I'm not going to name names.

hehe must be some really smart 5 years olds... probably have IQ over a 100

KoalaBear33

	09-07-2001 13:07									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

CIV 1's copy protection might have been useless, but it was definitely fun!!

	09-07-2001 15:48									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Civ I came out in the days when copy protection was in its infancy. The question and answer system was quite good when not every player had easy access to a photocopier in work or on the high street. Most games of the time used similar methods. I expect Civ III will employ one of the modern standards (which will no doubt be cracked within 6 months and replaced within a year).

I heartily agree with the posters who advocate copy protection that does not depend on the CD being in the drive. However I would not recommend replacing it with the type of protection used in the original SimCity - that black on brown code sheet was almost impossible to read even before I spilled coffee on it

	09-07-2001 18:45									#11
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold ...which will no doubt be cracked within 6 months...

6 months??? 6 days sounds more real

Copy protection is mostly useless, the only protection there should be is a protection so the CD can't be copied (by us who doesn't know anything about cracking), a more advanced copy protection only annoys the buyer, as far as I know there's no copy protection nobody has cracked yet.

Copy protection is a waste of time

	09-07-2001 19:11									#12
	Suffering from ads?

As some of you might remember that kind of protection was pretty standard on microprose games in the good old days. The same kind of protection was on F-19 Stealthfighter (mostly aircrafts), M1 Tankplatoon (mostly army veichcles, soo simple) and Pirates! ("When did the silvertrain/Treusure fleet arrive in [town] in the year xxxx?") and a few others I guess.

Frankly only the Pirates! one was hard (when you know that one you really needed help) in the other chases the manual wasn't really needed since it wasn't that hard to figure it out. But I think it was nice in a way, the people really intrested in the game didn't need to buy it.

	09-07-2001 19:39									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In the past I've had problems with some games that had copy protection programs that use coding to verify the presence of a legitimate CD in the CD player. They caused the game to crash frequently. There has to be a better way.

	09-07-2001 19:59									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I too would not like to see a CD copy protection scheme... since many people nowadays have an ample amount of hard disk space, I want to be able to do a full installation of Civ 3 and not have to worry about the CD again.

In addition to causing the hassle of always having to put the CD in first, requiring the CD also means you cannot listen to your own CDs while playing, and for those of us with noisy CD-ROM drives, the sound of the CD constantly being accessed (or even worse, intermittently being accessed, meaning the drive is always spinning up or slowing down...) during gameplay is a factor that might diminish the enjoyability of Civ 3. Part of the charm of Civ 2 was that it was quick to start up, no CD required, whenever you wanted... so I hope that if copy protection is included, it be implemented in a different way, although it will be probably cracked soon anyway - it will make copying the game somewhat more difficult all the same.

I agree, the Civ I copy protection was somewhat ridiculous... but not as much so as was that in the ten-year-old game SimEarth, which asked you for some statistics about planets in our solar system, which were featured in the manual. Of course, you could always look up the numbers anywhere else as well...

	09-07-2001 21:10									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Copy protection doesn't have to be too complex; as a matter of fact they shouldn't be. All it does is to thwart causal copists, not the pros - nothing stops the pros.

I don't see the CD protection scheme as bad since without it a group of people can just do full installs on their computers with one copy of the game.

	09-07-2001 21:23									#16
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I don't see the CD protection scheme as bad since without it a group of people can just do full installs on their computers with one copy of the game.

Why that is a bad idea is because, if people don't want to buy it in the first place they just make a search for a non CD crack, and for a well known game as civilization this would be pretty easy. The bad idea about it is because it's just a waste of time to implent it.

And another thing, the sales wont go up because there's a copy protection in the game

	09-07-2001 21:41									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The new Fade concept may help for a while until they manage to crack what is detecting an illegal copy. Hopefully it is embedded in the game code rather than being CD dependant.

	10-07-2001 00:06									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Most games nowadays come with a generated key that you enter in once during install or whatever. This key is verified with the game servers when playing online, but doesn't have any security functionality when playing alone. Even if a key generator is made, the key that is generated won't be valid online, where there is a database of the real keys. this method has worked pretty successfully in Half-Life as well as some of the Blizzard games (Diablo2, Starcraft)

	10-07-2001 00:20									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

bah.

no game is uncrackable.

look at quake 3.

it took them 4 months, but they made illegal copies playable.

every cd key is made by an algorithm, and once that algorithm is discovered, you can generate as many keys as you like.

its not like a LIST of serial numbers, as many people think.

the cd key is just a string, that after manipulation by the program becomes a single number.

so if u find out what the answer has to be you can generate billions of keys.

anyway, if that takes a while, buy the game, install, copy cd, write down key, scratch the CD, and return, claiming the CD was scratched when you bought it.

they can't re-sell a broken Cd, so the key is YOURS.

keep it free!

oh, and if u need new ram goto best buy, and buy a 128 meg chip or something. pay with CASH. go home and put your 16-64 meg chip in the box and return it.

i've done this twice.

<-- isnt that hitler?

Last edited by Inverse Icarus on 10-07-2001 at 00:28

	10-07-2001 00:48									#20
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX oh, and if u need new ram goto best buy, and buy a 128 meg chip or something. pay with CASH. go home and put your 16-64 meg chip in the box and return it.

Think of the poor one that buys your old chip.

	10-07-2001 01:10									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Mahdimael Most games nowadays come with a generated key that you enter in once during install or whatever. This key is verified with the game servers when playing online, but doesn't have any security functionality when playing alone. Even if a key generator is made, the key that is generated won't be valid online, where there is a database of the real keys. this method has worked pretty successfully in Half-Life as well as some of the Blizzard games (Diablo2, Starcraft)

That is the best way to do things. (If you have online games.)

UberKruX:
In my last reply to you I forgot to tell you that they probably just would give you a new CD if you turn up with a Scratched one.

	10-07-2001 01:14									#22
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX anyway, if that takes a while, buy the game, install, copy cd, write down key, scratch the CD, and return, claiming the CD was scratched when you bought it. they can't re-sell a broken Cd, so the key is YOURS. keep it free! oh, and if u need new ram goto best buy, and buy a 128 meg chip or something. pay with CASH. go home and put your 16-64 meg chip in the box and return it. i've done this twice.

Yes, I got just what I wanted by logging into Apolyton today, my daily dose of how to be a criminal. First rape stories, now stealing, can't wait to find out what I will learn tomorrow.

	10-07-2001 02:14									#23
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

OH! i missed rape stories?!

and gramphos, no, i've done it before.

you just pretend like you're a huge jerk, and its THEIR fault it scracthed.

yell, and say you're never shopping here again. just ask for your money back. your taking your business elsewhere.

the customer is always right.

thats how i got black and white anyways.

oh, and i find empathy only causes problems, so i try not to think of the poor sucker that buys my 16 stick.

the system was made this way. and i was made to break it.

if i had it my way, software would be all open source. all free.

but then again the world is based on greed.

damn you.

	10-07-2001 04:53									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

well, if I had to choose a protection system, to scare off n00bs and such, i'd do this.

1. CD Key Check. Same CD key every time.
   
2. ONE CD KEY allowed on internet at the same time (if theres a central server, ala Battle.net)
   
3. if no central server (TCP/IP or LAN) the same CD cannot be used on both machines.
   
4. an automated service for stolen keys (ala the keygen). DELETES USABLE KEY THAT WAS STOLEN, gives user a new key.
   

	10-07-2001 05:00									#25
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Isn't #3 a bit cruel? If I buy a game I want to be able to play it against a friend over the LAN. After all, a computergame costs quite a lot (unless you play it for ages like civ2) so I think consumers should be able to do that.

	10-07-2001 05:59									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by KoalaBear33 It's not as if 5 year olds play civlization KoalaBear33

I'm sorry I didn't know my cousin was a freak. Even he could figure out the pictures.
And the guy with the hammer is construction.

	10-07-2001 08:59									#27
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Uber,

yo what you are doing is lame... If you can't afford something that is a different story.. but wnen you CAN and you cheat then it is lame...shouldn't be doing it...

KoalaBear33

	10-07-2001 12:27									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX OH! i missed rape stories?! and gramphos, no, i've done it before. you just pretend like you're a huge jerk, and its THEIR fault it scracthed. yell, and say you're never shopping here again. just ask for your money back. your taking your business elsewhere. the customer is always right. thats how i got black and white anyways. oh, and i find empathy only causes problems, so i try not to think of the poor sucker that buys my 16 stick. the system was made this way. and i was made to break it. if i had it my way, software would be all open source. all free. but then again the world is based on greed. damn you.

You are a first class Pr*ck! You are a thief and a liar, but what gets me, is that you are proud of it! I'd like to see you face the day someone steals something from you that means very much to you! You'd be sure to have a differnet opinion about stealing.

I hope you get your just deserts soon!

BTW: YOU wouldn't have to pretend to be a JERK, you already are!

	11-07-2001 03:27									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

i dont steal from people. that is wrong.

i dont steal from the community. that is wrong.

i do not steal from the government. that is wrong.

i steal from the huge capitialistic companies who produce software purely for profit.

yes. i understand the coders have to be paid. understandible.

but, for example, world war 2 online.

$50 for the game, and then a monthly fee to play?

thats un-fawking-believeable.

and about ram, they can crank that stuff out for a nickel, and charge you 100 bucks for it.

big business blows.

if it wasn't for civ i wouldn't have the crappy excuse for an OS called winXP.

	11-07-2001 06:51									#30
	Tired of ads?

What does civ have to do with WinXP uber? And, yes, it's still wrong.