09-07-2001 03:17									#1
	How Come? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sometimes I can climb a hill or forest with 1 or 2/3 point and sometimes I can't?

Ever send 6 knights to climb an empty hill city 2 squares away that you been working on for a dozen turns only to have them stop short?Then you see a flag re-appear and know Mr. Pikeman has returned and you must start over?

	09-07-2001 04:37									#2
	Tired of ads?

Damn fine question, Smash. It's driven me to distraction. In the case of your knights, some of them probably would have climbed the hill, the rest probably wouldn't. Why? The units are identical in every way, down to the number of movement points.

Why is it so?

	09-07-2001 05:09									#3
	Support Apolyton

The movements are randomised for units with lower MPs than the stated movement cost of the terrain in question. I haven't tested it (I'm sure somebody has) but it seems to go something like:

If unit hasn't moved yet this turn, or has only moved on railways, then unit always gets to move.

If unit has moved this turn, the probability of the unit getting to move is: MP/MC where MP is the number of remaining MPs and MC is the stated movement cost of the terrain. The rest is up to a random number generator of some kind.

	09-07-2001 07:42									#4
	Suffering from ads?

Thanks for that, KH. I figured it had to be something like a random factor in the equation. That damn random factor again!

	09-07-2001 10:52									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I built up abit as "probing attacks" were failing miserably.It took a bunch o' crusaders to clear the city.But then,not 1 of 6 knights could make it.
Thankfully my counterpart blundered and let me withdraw.(rushed a pike and could have rushed a catapult)

But I sure would like to know if there is any way to know.This square I could only enter from 1 direction-straight #6 key.There must be way of predicting.There is no true randomness in computers...is there?

	09-07-2001 12:20									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Only when your HD crashes randomly, which always turns out to be when it's full of stuff you haven't backed up.

	09-07-2001 13:49									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Not to be too hasty, but my suggestion seems to hold up pretty well. I did 60 tests on a horseman who had moved 1MP worth and then tried to move onto a hill (MC=2). 32 made it, 28 didn't. I also did 60 tests on a settler who'd used up 1/3 MP on a river and then tried to move onte grassland (MC=1). 37 made it, 23 didn't.

	09-07-2001 14:39									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm fairly certain KH has it right - I have worked on this basis for a couple of years and never encountered a situation where it has been clearly wrong ...

Finbar, my experience is at SP - some odd things happen at MP - the rule may actually be different for MP cities ...

	09-07-2001 16:54									#9
	Suffering from ads?

SG1 - G'day. Long time no chat, my son. Actually, the same random thing applies to MP as well. Sometimes you can go that extra little bit, sometimes you can't.

	09-07-2001 17:22									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Somewhere deep in my memory, I remember reading that it was random but that being a vet helped your percentages. And that not being at full strength reduced your percentage.

RAH
Ramblings of an old man.

	09-07-2001 18:56									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Reminds me of something stupid both Ming and I did in an MP game a long time ago, although mine was ultimately stupider.

I had a city on a mountain chokepoint and was defending with phalanxes, having forgotten to put a pikeman in once i dicovered feudalism. Ming sends about six or eight crusaders and takes out the phalanxes. Because of the location of the city, all the crusaders had to attack from the same square. He then sends another dozen crusaders to try to take the city on their second movement, but not one of them can move into the city. In the end, he must have at least a dozen crusaders sitting on a single square next to the city. This probably represents his entire campaign up to that point in the game.

So what do I rush build in the city, having both mathematics and feudalism? That's right boys and girls, a pikeman.

	09-07-2001 21:22									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Holy smokes Bird.Thats deja vu all over again.Almost exactly what happened cept I had some knights.

	16-07-2001 15:34									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Bird So what do I rush build in the city, having both mathematics and feudalism? That's right boys and girls, a pikeman.

surely rush building a catapult would be useless as it wouldnt be ready till the followuing turn any way.. its not like you are the aI who can cheat and build in same turn

	16-07-2001 17:49									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin surely rush building a catapult would be useless as it wouldnt be ready till the followuing turn any way.. its not like you are the aI who can cheat and build in same turn

There was plenty of time between the point where he saw my attack had failed to take the city and his turn. He had all the time in the world to rush build a catapult. On the start of his turn the cat would have destroyed the many vet crusaders sitting at his door step. Instead, a sole pikeman appeared in his city on the start of his turn. Needless to say, I took the city on my next turn

	16-07-2001 18:05									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Did you say, "dad gum" Bird?
At least, eh?

	18-07-2001 23:13									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ming's right, Ras, I had plenty of time before my turn came b/c I didn't go next after Ming. I rush built the pikeman and fortified him on my turn. I should have rushbuilt the catapult.

Slowwhand, I suspect I said something a little more colorful than that.

	20-07-2001 15:35									#17
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by rah Somewhere deep in my memory, I remember reading that it was random ...

Actually it may not be entirely random. Whether you convert a fractional point into movement seems to depend on both the last results and the order by which you move your units. It doesn't seem like a fully fixed sequence though.

	22-07-2001 07:24									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ming There was plenty of time between the point where he saw my attack had failed to take the city and his turn. He had all the time in the world to rush build a catapult. On the start of his turn the cat would have destroyed the many vet crusaders sitting at his door step. Instead, a sole pikeman appeared in his city on the start of his turn. Needless to say, I took the city on my next turn

oh i see what you mean now... his turn hadnt actually started and he rush built the pikeman, sorry read your post wrong...

I hadnt actually though of doing this before, i usually so busy panicking as the othe rplayers level my cities ...

	23-07-2001 09:20									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

maybe its somthing like the oedo years???

	23-07-2001 12:50									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

no thats not it.If you save and reload before trying to climb the hill or whatever you get different results.Sometimes you make it,sometimes you don't.Trying different directions gets the same results.