21-05-2000 03:39									#1
	Donīt buy MGE! Increase the size of your Attachments

It is so tempting, you can have CIV2, and Conflicts in Civilization AND Fantastic Worlds! Incredible, great bargain!
Well, no.

They have completely screwed up the diplomacy making it completely hostile. If you want to play single player, better drop the CD in the trash and the the classic edition.
You just canīt play the scenarios in the way they are supposed to be played. People who are supposed to be your allies instantly get hostile in just one turn and they will attack you as soon as they can, no matter what you do!


I hate all-war scenarios! This did not happen in the classic edition. Allies were allies.

After sending an e-mail to Microprose, they answered me that MGE is NOT civ2.
They told me that MGE does NOT include FW.
If you want to play FW, then you have to byt FW.

Can you think of such an absurd answer?

In the box they say:
" Includes:
- Civilization II
- Conflicts in Civilization
- CIV II Fantastic Worlds
"

In the back, you can read:
" Weīve also included full working versions of both of our add-ons: Conflicts in Civilization anf Fantastic Worlds".

What they told me was exactly the opposite.
I am extremely frustrated and I demand a patch.

Why did they included those scenarios if you canīt play them as they are supposed to be played?

I appreciate the collaboration of Smash, who has also problems with the MGE.

	21-05-2000 03:44									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I have over here the original response from Microprose (I have found it inside one of my folders). Read it and make your own conclusions.


This is the letter I have sent to them:

" First of all, I will ask you to excuse my english since it is not my native
language. Now I will get directly to the problem.

I have bought CIV2 MGE principally because I was interested in all the
new scenarios and features included in this new edition. I wasnÝt looking up

to play multiplayer, just normal singleplayer.
I have already owned the old CIV2 and I when bought the MGE I was thinking
about getting the Conflics in Civilization and Fantastic Worlds packages in
only one buy.
After playing lots of the scenarios, I have realized that the AI was
extremely more aggressive than in standard CIV2, up to the point of
rendering some of the scenarios pointless. I have already make some
comparisions with the standard CIV2 and using the cheat menu.
In only one turn, the AI would change its attitude towards me from
"Enthusiastically" to "Hostile" (or from 0 to 100 in the attitude level). If

this a new "feature" of the game, why was it left undocumented? It would
have changed my decision about buying this game maybe...
As I told you before, I have already experimented with standard civ2 in same

situations, and this did not happen. I want you to know that this makes the
scenarios boring and even unplayabale as they should be, because you are
expected to cooperate with the AI.
I also want you to know that I am not the only experiencing this problem!
There are some threads dealing with this in the www.apolyton.net/forums
So, what should we do if we want standard civ2 BUT with the Fantastic world
feature? After all, that was the primary reason of why I have bought this
game.
As it is now, I am compelled to consider this a bug."

This is their answer:


"Hello,
Civ 2 Fantastic Worlds does not come with Civ II MGE, it is a separate
Scenario pack designed to be used with Civ II.


Your customer number is 472256

If you need further assistance, please call our technical support staff at
(410) 568-2377, or visit our web site at http://support.hasbro.com. Also
please be sure to include all previous replies when/if responding to this
message.

Best Regards,
Matt F. at Technical Support
hasbro_support@aqinc.com "

	21-05-2000 03:49									#3
	Got spare money?

thats why i only MP civ. Regular civ is boring and way to easy to beat unless you are tryingfor records or OCC ing or some other challenge.

MGE is good for one thing and one thing only MPing which is after 4years of civ2 the only thing left for me unfortunately

yes they ruined the diplomacy but then as you may guesss, diplomacy isn't my thing so i play mge even in SP

	21-05-2000 03:54									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Lazlo:

Have you installed all the patches for the MGE?

Plus, the many excellent user scenarios on the web (most can be found through this site) are much better than the original game scenarios).

Try: 2194 days of War, Red Front v1.4, The English Civil War, etc.

------------------
Go tell the Spartans, passerby:
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

	21-05-2000 04:30									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have installed the patch vertion 1.3 and nothing have changed.

I have even tried with other scenarios.
The problem is not in the scenarios but in
the game engine.

	21-05-2000 22:07									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I feel your pain.


That is a very piss poor response you got back.What the $%#@ are they saying it doesn't come with MGE?.Its not civ2?

Obviously,whoever answered you doesn't have a clue.Probably a office secretary.

I'm glad I didn't return my original copy as they suggested.

They consider civ2 and clones a game of the past with little or no interest.Boy! are they wrong

Future purchases will be very cautious.

	21-05-2000 22:40									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Are you back again whinning about MGE? Next thing you'll complain about is the AI cheating. I (and others) welcome tough diplomacy and AI cheating, it provides a little more of challenge than otherwise. BTW, it is a waste of time to deal with Microprose, as you have experienced.

	22-05-2000 00:14									#8
	Remove this text

how does it make the game harder?The ai can't fight worth a donut.I haven't lost a city to the ai in years.Barbs are another story.

all it does is make many scenarios into this:

ai attacks.
human wipes out ai

every game is like that.All the hours of scenario creation are wasted in MGE.


MGE for multiplay only

	22-05-2000 01:17									#9
	Support Apolyton

Play the improved Red Front scenario. Don't be cheesy and look at the events, just play it.

You can do everything right and still be scrambling.

	22-05-2000 01:25									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

To Smash: I appreciate your response. It makes me feel I am not alone in this. Tank you!

To Steve Clark: Yes, I am again complaining with MGE (I have started a thread about this maybe 2 or 3 months ago).
You may (and others) welcome tough diplomacy but I (and others!) DONīT welcome it.
First of all: I donīt play scnearios with the mere intention of wiping out the AI. If, for example, I am playing a WWII scenario as a british I do not find very "historic" to have the US attack you in the back!
I do not play for points. Sometimes I even change civilizations when I am far beyond the others. My style of play is not conquer-the-world-before-you-can-even-blink, sorry.

Ok, you may then say to me: "fine, if you donīt like it, donīt play it". I donīt know if you realize that this kind of things did NOT happen in the old CIV 2. And in their box they say that it includes CIV2 with CoC and FW and then they tell me that is not true!


Microprose should at least release the binaries of the old FW game for we MGE possesors.

As Smash said before, MGE is for multiplay only. Scenarios are pointless with this diplomacy. Too bad in the box did NOT say that!

	22-05-2000 01:49									#11
	Got spare money?

and if you have the french version of MGE you can't have the option: "City 3 pts" it's in the cheat/edit city options but it simply doesn't work !

i and just see it's the same thing with the french version of Test Of Time !

	22-05-2000 03:46									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It doesn't make MGE scenarios worthless, just those that rely on diplomacy; plenty of scenarios are based on all out war!

It's not just the French version, Eyn. I've got the English version w/ the latest patch and I can't access the 3 point value either.

	22-05-2000 03:54									#13
	Tired of ads?

Oh my! I Love MPG edition! Although I suppose if you don't want to play multiplayer there is no reason to buy it.. but multiplayer adds a whole new diminsion to the game, making each game a new experience. In fact, I never play single player anymore.

	22-05-2000 06:50									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have successfully negotiated with other civs in MPE. It seems that on turn one they look hostile, but if you wait a turn...

	22-05-2000 06:56									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Careful. After making some inverstigations
it looks like the AI is only aggressive when you play single player. When in a multiplayer session (with actually at least two players!) the AI will be somewhat sweeter.
Yes, for multiplayer it may be great, but for single player it is a crap.
I am rendered to play only those scenarios that are an all-out war!

	22-05-2000 20:02									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Then explain how some of us can build one city and reach AC using MGE in SP - all with diplomacy and not going out and fighting anyone? In my current OCC game (deity, 7 civs, raging hordes), I've managed 2 alliances, 4 map trades and several tributes - just enough to keep them pacified while I race up the tech tree. It is tough, no doubt, but with skills, you can win a diplomatic game with MGE, without having to always go bloodlust (which is more fun, imo, but that's not the point here). No, they did not screw it up, they just made it more of a challenge.

	22-05-2000 22:36									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

I agree with you it is more of a challenge, but there is some limit point where I want to stop!
I have been playing civilization for far too long and now I have lost interest in wining the game. I just want to play and let things happen. I do sometimes change civilization, as I have told before, but I do not strive to get a super high score and nothing like it.
It is just that with the current settings of things, I find it hard to do it.
You have to realizae that some things smell weird. I have tewaked the attitude level of a civilization from its current number to 0 (like). The next turn it was up to 100 (complete dislike)! This happens even with alliances. Everything you do to appease a potential enemy works for only one turn!
This is not documented anywhere!

Classical Civ2 has also some kind of strange behavior, but it was more predictable.
For example, if you were the most powerful civilization by the turn 201, all the other civs would turn against you and they will start to conspire.
It just happens that I donīt find any sense in the actual AI way of handling diplomacy!

	23-05-2000 17:57									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yeah Lazlo... Diplomacy with AI's sucked in CivII, and is even worse in MGE. But, as many have pointed out, it can still be done.

But, for that reason... YOU SHOULD BUY MGE.
Then you can play with humans instead of the stupid AI. Now, that's real diplomacy.

One can only hope that diplomacy will be better in CivIII. If they want to have the regular games settings in a similar fashion to make it tough at the harder levels... fine. But, they should allow more options so that real AI diplomacy can be set up in scenarios. There is nothing worse than playing a WWII scenario, and watching the Axis and Ally forces sign a permanent peace treaty in the first year of the game when you are playing the Russians

	24-05-2000 09:47									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That is exactly my point. MGE is for multiplayer only.
If you plan to buy it to play single player,
then you should not buy it. That example you showed us here about WWII is a bug, not a feature. If I have to choose, I will prefer old classic CIV2 diplomacy. This game is in need of a patch!

	23-05-2000 23:28									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I hear you... But the diplomacy in CivII wasn't all that much better. But in comparison...

(And I never said it was a feature, but it sure as hell is bad programming)

	25-05-2000 01:47									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Lazlo, where did you buy FW???
I've been looking for it all over!

	25-05-2000 05:53									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I donīt have FW! I wish I had it.
I would trade the MGE for the FW!!

FW is going to be hard to find. Microprose
must think that with MGE they have covered
everything (which is false because, in my opinion, it is bugged).

	26-05-2000 03:23									#23
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Maybe I'll fly down for River v Boca and bring you both a copy.


hmmm, I guess that would be at least three copies since Hodad has HsFB to look after as well...

	27-05-2000 09:51									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yeah... and Boca won ... 3-nill... what bastards
Hey, is there a way to mail the .exe at least?

	27-05-2000 04:08									#25
	Tired of ads?

It is not that easy.
When Microprose developed MGE, they exported
everything to DirextX because of efficiency(?).

I donīt think with just changing the exe file
you will get FW.

	27-05-2000 05:52									#26
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I , for one am glad for the AI change, it makes the game more challenging when everyone is hostile and not friendly like in the original. You don't win by alliances in single player, you kill everyone.

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