11-09-2000 18:32									#1
	Game mods to discourage ICS Increase the size of your Attachments

This question was inspired by Xin Yu's "size 5" strategy, but it is a separate topic. Xin Yu notes that size 5 cities can generate science faster than several size 2 cities. Does this mean that modifying the game to require LESS research would discourage ICS? If faster research meant a rapid advance on the tech tree, then a non-ICS tribe would soon have the ability to womp an ICS tribe.

(Originally I was going to suggest that requiring MORE research would discourage ICS, because in the long run, ICS would make little progress compared to a size-5 or OCC tribe. But the logical extreme -- require infinite research to make any advance -- benefits ICS because it can never fall behind in research.)

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

	11-09-2000 19:19									#2
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The best way to discourage ICS in MP, is to play diety and raging hoards on a real small map. Most people that live on ICS will refuse to play these settings so it must be a hinderance. Raging hoards and a small map almost guarentee that an ICSer can not isolate himself from others and barbs and expand at will. The only truely effective way to beat ICS is to find them early and eliminate them before they get entrenched. The diety setting also makes it critical that they get HG. If they don't, further hinderance.

RAH

	11-09-2000 23:08									#3
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How about in SP? In MP, Rah's strategy seems to be the most sensible approach, with the exception of his spelling of dEIty. Is there anything that the gallery can come up with that would reduce the ICS effectiveness in SP, so that human players are induced to take a different route? Both ICS and WLT_D swamps the happless AI. I asked this question in the Rules.txt thread, but the answers were MP related. I am trying to make minor mods to the rules.txt file to help the AI (I know, its impossible ) improve its play ever so slightly.

Less food for settlers?
Late HG, and SoL?
Late advanced governments entirely?

	11-09-2000 23:18									#4
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HUH?
There is a real great way to "discourage" ICS in SP mode... Don't use it
It's not like somebody is holding a gun to your head.

Now, one would get the thought from reading some of the threads that there is something "wrong" with the ICS strategy...
There isn't. It's a valid and powerful strategy to use. Most of the whining I hear about it comes from people who have lost to it. (Which I have too... but that doesn't make it bad)

Some simple advice... DEAL WITH IT! Find them early... attack them... or play settings more suited to your style of game... like Deity and Raging Hordes...

All the basic strategies are valid, and are neither good or bad... as long as you win using them

[This message has been edited by Ming (edited September 11, 2000).]

	11-09-2000 23:34									#5
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You could increase the riot factor.And perhaps making the Gardens a 300 or 400 sheild wonder.Its at least as valuble as the Oracle.

Maybe bumping the Gardens back to something like Banking or Magnetism.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited September 11, 2000).]

	11-09-2000 23:42									#6
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I was hoping that there was small grey area in SP between the white of use the great strategy of ICS and win easily and the black of don't use it at all. Maybe there is no way to find that ground, and I just end up waiting for Civ3...

Clearly MP is the most challenging option for competitive civing, short of that, how can the existing game be made more challenging? We have OCCed to AC, we have ICSed to early conquest. The AI is a complete joke - isn't there anything that can be done with the existing set of rules to make a standard game fractionally more difficult??

	11-09-2000 23:47									#7
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Well, you have to admit... We have well documented all the ways to kick the crap out of the AI. I remember when I first played civ, it was tough... but that was a long time ago.

If you really want a challange, do what somebody (I'm sorry I can't remember who) suggested. Just keep hitting the enter key until about 1 ad... and then try to catch up. That should be a hard enough challange for you (assuming barbs haven't killed you before then)