17-09-2000 05:57									#1
	A wonder building strategy Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I normally like to build many wonders. I tried one game with the self imposed rule of building NO wonders. I found that the AI did not build wonders at the rate it usually did. I think the AI is programmed to try to match you and compete for what you are trying to build. This suggests a couple of wonder building ploys vs. the AI.
First, never start building the wonder you really want. Pick something else and plan to convert later. The AI will try to match you.
Second, if you have trade, use your wonder city to build caravans, and don't start the wonder directly. You may lose a few shields because of production rounding for caravans, but even that could be managed if yor really cared.
---Any observations?---

	17-09-2000 07:50									#2
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I would have to agree that the AI builds wonders around how fast I do, but I don't know about using it as effeciently as you speak to your advantage. I have found they like to build the wonders quickly when I am building them quickly... but they rarely ever are building the same wonder as I am. This leads me to believe that building a wnder I don't want half way will just make the AI build the wonder I DO want more quickly. I think your idea with the caravans is much better, even though most of us do that already. Of course, i could be TOTALLY wrong, which is likely the case...

	17-09-2000 12:27									#3
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Not only do I like to build a lot of wonders, but lately I've been running games where I try to build all the wonders. The game I'm running now the Egyptians--who always seem to start a wonder first for some reason--got to build one early on, so I didn't get the record on it. I've never tried not building any--I'll get overrun once the AI gets Leo's--but I've noticed lately that the AI will try to keep up with you, even if all they've got to build is the Oracle. Then--depending on where they are on the map, close to each other or spread across a large map (which I play a lot)--they will abandon their "great project" and start on what another AI civ is doing. Weird. Most AI civs like to get to republic and democracy as fast as possible, it seems, so maybe they follow any of the wonders along that line. I've never logged it, but it sounds interesting to experiment with. And building a lot of wonders sure kills the time when you jump ahead in the game and there's that long stretch between 100 bc and 1500 bc and you've got a lot of small cities sitting around with nothing to build but caravans.

	18-09-2000 18:35									#5
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I think it would be interesting to experiment with that, Chainsaw. Thanks for pointing that out. One of the great things about this game are all the variables. I'm curious, though--if you just choose certain wonders to build through the game (plan what you're going to build), will all the other AI civs build the rest? Seems like that would be an efficient way to get all of them--just go to war and take what they've got. Or build only those that would give you a strong army--Sun Tzu, GW, Leo's, Shake's, etc.--and take the rest from them. That way you wouldn't waste a lot of shield production on them.
[This message has been edited by Longfistking (edited September 18, 2000).]

	18-09-2000 22:23									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think that a good idea, lfk. Just build two or three wonders for a quick war against a nearby neighbor who has nice WoWs. But there are some diificulties about that:
The Worthy wonders are scattered throughout all the enemy civs (I have never seen an AI city that had at least two of the SSC wonders), so you would have to get to many different civs quite fast. Thatīs kinda hard on bigger maps, and by the time youīd have done it, some wonders would come too late for an effective super-expansionist strategy. You could as well go on slaughterin and conquer the world. It requires some good luck to have them nearby to get them all quickly and then stop the conquest and swich to another strategy. But itīs worth a try...

	19-09-2000 00:59									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Lots more old discussion on this subject is also available here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/H...html?date=11:12

	19-09-2000 23:30									#8
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why does the ai build the oracle after its already obsolete, in its capital when it already has collosus and the tech to build Copernicus? And i have seen a SSC in an ai city, yet no trade routes or proper management of the city's resources either.
[This message has been edited by Mercantile (edited September 19, 2000).]

	23-09-2000 09:29									#9
	Remove this text

The only wonder I build w/o caravans is the collosus, since i build it before trade.

I may use direct production for the last 50 shields of a wonder, or may waste one turn of shields, if it is a low shield city, and use all caravans. In any case, I don't start the wonder until i'll have at least x-1 the number of caravans needed. That way if sh!t happens, you can build a unit in the wonder city, or take a few turns off for an improvement, like a sewer. You can even change your mind and build it in a different city.

And you don't need to waste many shields, just micromanage each caravan. At some point, you spend 2 or 4 gold, and buy a horseman or diplo, and then you can end up exactly or within 1 shield of 50.

	02-10-2001 23:29									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You may have to build two(or more) wonders at once. If the ai is about to complete great-wall, and you rush to complete it first, then it will use those shields on another wonder such as GL if it has the tech. If you covet both wonders, you must rush the second in another city at the same time. I have found it convenient to build a fortress on a road within 3 squares of several potential wonder building cities. I send all my food caravans there to wait until they are needed for wonders. I can now send them as needed. In addition, it keeps clutter out of the city so I can see what I have there. If threatened, the fortress can be defended by a unit ffrom one of the cities nearby.