23-07-2000 06:14									#31
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I've played the WWII challenge a lot. but my favorite challenge now is playing the ww79 scenario that comes with MGE and trying to win with the Indians.

Its tough, because of all the nukes flying around and major powers, but a lot of fun nonetheless.

	23-07-2000 06:42									#32
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I like playing the WWII scenario as the Turks. I think it helps me hone my ecnomy building skills. You basically inherit a failed economy, and no military. I always start by building caravans andsending them into germany. You get much needed cash, and your science is at a crawl by that point, so it helps jump staret you there, too.

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Check out my 1602 A.D. site

	23-07-2000 11:46									#33
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Turkey's pretty hard, I mean, you're trapped between two bohemoths and really can't expand unless you have partisan-led engineers past the British Middle-East.

WW79 is fun too...try it as the neutrals

	23-07-2000 20:41									#34
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I've never played the WWII that came with MGE (since I don't have MGE), I've only played the one that came wit the original Civ2. I don't know if that makes a difference... but when I played as the Turks I just took over the two french cities near me, and the Russians were almost always at war with either the Axis or with the Allies, so when they attacked me, I took the city closest to myself and build a few coastal fortresses. Russian problem solved. Next I would just invade N. Africa (except for the Axis cities, of course ) and get a foothold there. From there an invasion of Spain is rather easy. I never got passed that by the end of the scenario.

------------------
SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Check out my 1602 A.D. site

	24-07-2000 11:33									#35
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That's still pretty good, what if you continued the advance past the end of the scenario?

	25-07-2000 08:58									#36
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well.. If i continued, I most likely would have massed my units on the french-spanish border (this is after conquering spain), and invaded france. Next, i would rebuild my force, and invade the Axis on two fronts. That will probably never happen though, since I play ToT more now.

------------------
SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Check out my 1602 A.D. site

	26-07-2000 23:35									#37
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Just an additional update on my progress...

Feb '56 Krasnovodsk, Kiev, Uralsk, Astrakhan. Four additional small mis-named cities Bergen, Ghent, Salzburg, Prague; all in the central plains - all bribed.

April '56 Voronezh, Kazan, Kuibyshev, Grozny, Maikop. That leaves the Crimea and the Urals about 15 cities - shouldn't take too long. Odessa and Sevestapol aren't rail linked to anything else so it takes the Ruskies more movement points than they can afford to move attacking units from those cities toward me - no real threat so I have skipped them for now.

I now think I will be done with the eastern front by the end of '56 and should be able to wrap up well before 1960 unless the Allies build MP and fly nukes in the same turn. I am not even building barracks anymore - non-vet Howies are fine for partisans.

	27-07-2000 01:39									#38
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Looks like you're set up for an earlier finish than me, Sten!

I'm at april 1958, working my way east. The front is (from South to North) Maikop/Turin/Stalingrad/Voronezh/Kuibyshev/Kazan/Gorky... All these cities are mine.

The nukes are flying all over the place ("Hallelujah", as Martin Sheen puts it in The Dead Zone)...

Ruskies have nukes, Allies have nukes and the Axis has nukes... So every turn I face nukes from three civs... First I bought SDI:s and got away with it a couple of times... Then one turn I rushed two SDI:s from scratch (didn't want to disband any units), which cost me 1600 gold... Poof, both cities nuked to ashes... So now I just leave a unit or two as defenders and roll over them.

May be able to finish before 1963, though.

Carolus

	27-07-2000 15:28									#40
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Heh, heh, heh!

Nope, those were my losses...

And I bet they've doubled since...

A stack here and a stack there...

I think I started conquering too early and picked the wrong target, going for the UK first is probably best. Gives you lots of gold, no risk of costly counter attacks (as with the Axis) and getting a production base early. Meanwhile mother Russia lays down railroad tracks.

I'll play it through and post the details when done.

Carolus

	27-07-2000 18:19									#41
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BTW, I'm still a comrade loyal to the cause (just reread the thread)!

Carolus

	27-07-2000 19:44									#42
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It is strange how different our two games have been running - great alternate histories.

Since I am not fighting the Allies, there aren't nukes flying, and the Ruskies don't have Mech Inf - I have only lost 11 howies, 20 alpines and iirc 5 Mechs. Sounds like they have been more inept for me - I'll take that! Are you using MGE or 2.42??

I have been building airfields (two engineers) next to the city I am attacking, preferably on a river, to protect the stack - might be just a little unrealistic... but that coupled with not worrying about blocking partisans squares that aren't accessable by rail has kept my exposed stacks to a minimum.

Onward Comrade!

(where is my copy of Billy Bragg singing the Internationale??)

	28-07-2000 09:07									#43
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No mech infantry? Hm, that's strange... Russians have them and the Allies had them as early as during the blitz I think...

I'm also playing 2.42 and we're about even in years... A year is, what, 6 turns?

Anyway, this late in the game it shouldn't matter too much... Most of my cities crank out howies every other turn... Sheer numbers should be enough now, no matter what they defend with, right?

Ah, Billy Bragg! I remember his first single (I think), "I wanna be a kosmonaut!" or something like that...

Carolus

	31-07-2000 20:12									#44
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Great leap forward update...

Finished off mother Russia at the beginning of Oct '56 with the bribe of Sevestapol and Krasnovodsk - should have been able to do it last turn but I neglected to finish rush building a transport in Astrakhan.

I am positioning transports in the Atlantic for the chain to America, but I can't remember if they are returned when an alliance is broken. I could launch the one-turn sweep of the Allies in December unless my boats get sent home. (except for the Middle East) There are three allied cities in Norway, conveniently connected to my Oslo with 6 howies and a dip.

Turkey I am planning to bribe if the rails aren't in, the cities look small. Preliminary scout flights don't look promissing for a howie-fest. The rest of the Med and Persia might require some road building, and getting through the hilly Caucases will take a few turns unless I can figure out a quicker naval way from Italy.

I think I can be done now by the end of '58.

June & August '56 highlights - Sverdlovsk, Magnitorgorsk, Kalinin, Omsk, Yaroslav, Novosibirsk, Orsk, Rostov, Odessa, Krasnoyursk, Tangiers and 10 smaller cities with Roman/European names.

Tangiers opens the North African campaign and reduces the Axis to two cities. Four small French cities, and two Axis before I can get to Alexandria. I hope the allies have been cooperative with the Rails. Now the question is much more logistics than firepower. I am just building a couple of howies, most cities are building engineers, transports, and small ones have switched to capitalization, taxmen and a big food deficit.

if no one out there understands
start your own revolution
and cut out the middle man

	09-08-2000 05:31									#45
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Last couple of turns took a little while...

June 1957

Should have been earlier. I had to sit in February waiting for my ship chain to get into place and at the end of April I had a ton of units left but no way to get to the last city - Scapa Flow. Pretty fun challenge, though I don't think I'll do it again anytime soon.

October '56 - Batum & Istambul. Mostly "road" building and resting wounded howies. Almost all roads I built were actually airfields - two engineers can finish in one turn and you avoid stack death.

Dececmber '56 - Rest of Turkey, French North Africa and French Levant.

February '57 - Tripoli and Tobruk finishing off the Axis (still sailing toward America...)

April '57 - Founded cities in America and England - moved units into cities, dissolved alliance & Howied the lot. Except Scapa Flow in northern UK. No roads and two hills to pass through. Should have scouted it first.

Staying allied with the Allies was the key to an early date. I am sure that would have been most difficult in the MGE version. Attacking the Allies first, before Russia would be difficult because of their four different locations - requiring a lot of units, and either careful partisan blocking or enough defense to let them run around.

(no nukes! )
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited August 08, 2000).]

	10-08-2000 00:59									#46
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I say, good show old chap!

Yes, this one definitely has to rest for a while before another try! (Did I post above that I'd have another go right after this one? No way! )

Will finish soon I hope, had to let it go last week.

Clever, clever (regarding airfields instead of railroad)! Your Swedish heritage does not deny itself!

Carolus

	10-08-2000 11:37									#47
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My hat goes off to you gentlemen, it is possible!

	11-08-2000 04:36									#48
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thanks Mao!

re: air-roading

in commie or fundy - when you have a decent amount of space to cover and you are not concerned with counter-attacks the best road is actually ICS with airfields between. No ZOC issues, three free support for every way-station, only takes one engineer to build a city, add a barracks and you have a howie hospital. I used that approach in N Africa and Eastern Russia.

You went to Oslo, I sat hunched over a laptop... I think we both need a drink!

	11-08-2000 10:13									#49
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I always use air-roading if I'm on a big campaign in a war. I did in Red Front (*pssssst* don't tell Nemo!) and it worked very well. It's great for those great plains.

*sigh*...not back to my game...you don't even wanna know how I'm going... and I've ready restarted at least half a dozen times, and the best I can isn't even close to a win...

	11-08-2000 14:32									#50
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Amen to the drink! What's halfway between San Francisco and Sweden, Iceland (my geography stinks! )? Meet you in Reykjavik, say, tomorrow at 22.00?

How do the barracks work in this scenario anyway? Do they consider one year a turn or is it (as it should be) for example a change from february to april?

Mao,

It's common sense to build airbases on HILLS! Try it and you shall find this challange no more difficult than a walk in the park...

Carolus

	24-08-2000 08:06									#51
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Finally finished the challendge. Got the last city in August 1958, could have finish earlier with better planning and if I had not forgotten a city all the way in china and 1 completly alone in siberia. Last turns are really boring as you are rolling with about 100 howies and take 1 city after another. The early part is really interesting as you struggle to stay alive with the axis sneak attacking you all the time. Building coastal forteress and establishing trade routes with the USA really helps early in the game. Why do you not get a tech after conquering a city? You have to steal instead.

	24-08-2000 16:33									#52
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I beat it as the french once... but I guess thats easier than as the spanish...

	25-08-2000 09:43									#53
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I think it would be a lot more fun and interesting if instead of taking every single city the goal would be to capture berlin, moscow, london and washington as early as possible. The last few turn are otherwise very boring and take forever.

	24-08-2000 22:05									#54
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Amen on the boredom thing!

arii - give my best to StL

did you keep an early alliance?

did you develope Spain, or just leave those cities small?

when did you build the trade routes?

did you go fundy?

how many times did you move a howie off of the rails by accident and NOT let loose a string of expletives??

	26-08-2000 09:36									#55
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In order I built caravans until trade goods were exhausted, engeneers, coastal forteress, airport in madrid then fighters. Axis sneaked attacked, stole a bunch of techs, including demo. Switch to demo, WLPD the cities until size 12-15. I stayed in demo the rest of the game building military units or spies in every cities.

	05-09-2000 18:20									#56
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I saw this thread and thought I would give this a try. It is easier to win than I thought. Its now 1959 and while the Russians are pretty much intact, victory is now certain. The Allies and germans have 2 cities each and the neutrals 1. Those 3 CIVS should disappear in about 2 turns as I am loading transports to scoot from England into Norway, Finland and Sweden (all 3 have their last cities up north there). Hope to win it in the early 1960s (not a great score but ok).

My Civ was never threatened. I was at peace or allied with pretty much everyone until I could sell off improvements, build coastal fortresses and a military. Once I got Fundy and Robotics the way was clear. An early alliance with the Allies continued (with many gifts of techs)until I broke it (1955) and took about 15 of their cities in the same turn. I was at war with the Russians almost the whole game but their efforts went on the germans and allies. The Allies have twice nuked just-captured cities but thats merely an annoyance(I have SDI in all major centres).

Next move is to construct a rail line into the heart of the Russian rail network (sacrificing some engineers). Right now theres an open space were anything from either side gets killed. With a 1 turn sudden rail link its howie blitz time. I have 40 howies with about 20 more next turn. I also have some tanks swinging up out of the mideast to find any isolated cities.

It is an interesting challenge to win from such a bad start but it really just depends on the AI. If the allies and French together pressed an attack from the start you would be hard pressed to hold those little cities. Its interesting also that the Allies and Axis became friends in this scenario fairly quickly and stayed friends as they essentially fought the Russians to a stalemate. This allowed the mighty Spanish to grow and prosper HeHe.

	17-09-2000 23:05									#57
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I, too, am trying this scenario out...

I just have one problem, the game own't let me switch governments! The REVOLUTION option is grayed out, so how am i suposed to change governments?? How did you guys change?

	19-09-2000 09:07									#58
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Changing governments is allowed in v2.42 when you first receive the tech.

The bastards fixed this bug in MGE and you can no longer revolt if you get the tech in a trade. Not sure about researching it... haven't played the MGE version far enough to get my first choice, which is Fundy.

In MGE I would first ally with the Allies and then cease fire with the Axis. Build around 5 or 6 new cities waiting for the Axis to make peace with the Allies and then sneak attack you. The Allies will declare war on the Axis and they should stay at war then going forward.

[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited September 18, 2000).]

	19-09-2000 22:02									#59
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I have MGE and was able to change gouv when I stole the tech. It was funny that in demo I did not have many revolting problems

	20-09-2000 03:46									#60
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I think the gov switch didn't work in MGE for me when it wasn't the last gift I got... I could swear it worked at least once - thanks for the alert arii.

Does anyone what happened to the Ming/Xin MP thread on their team effort? I have looked for it briefly on a couple of occasions and I read the thing originally, but I can't seem to locate it. It has been quite a while so it is probably gone forever...