11-07-2001 17:23									#1
	About manuals Tired of ads?

Just curious, but how many actually reads the manual to a game?

	11-07-2001 17:33									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The more complex the game, the more important the manual. Since Civ 3 promises to be rather complex, I would play on a low skill level and smaller map while thumbing through the manual. Once I finished a quick game having tried the interface, etc., I'd start to study the parts that are still confusing me, ignoring things I haven't really gotten to yet...perhaps the subtleties of 'cultural influence' or things of that sort.

Having said that, if the manual does not explain in detail how various aspects work, or failing that if the website doesn't offer that information, I'll give a few tries to figure out the mechanics myself. If it still doesn't make sense, I have a decision to make: Does it really effect that game all that much?

Consider Europa Universalis. By most measures, an outstanding game but one so needlessly setback by its horribly vague manual that it became a real chore to learn the ins and outs of the game.

	11-07-2001 17:35									#3
	Got spare money?

Well, I read the manuals before the game, and often there's some excellent reasoning behind it - for example, I get the games on a vacation, before I'm able to get the PC, so I read the manuals. Next, I know how to play each game, at least I can understand quickly, but by giving several hours to the manual and foldouts, I can understand each and every aspect. Plus, manuals like ones from Civ I and SMAC are so fat that you start to respect the game.

	11-07-2001 18:13									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I always read the manual first, because,
A, its fun and
B, to get the most out of the game I need to know what is going on.

Besides, its always a good read when I have to wait to get a sibling off the computer.

Exceptions are as follows:
A. I already know the game
B. The manual is on the computer. (Ick)

Hey, someone make another poll! If you had to choose, would you prefere the manual in paper, or on the disk.

Ioanes

	11-07-2001 18:51									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by JMarks Besides, its always a good read when I have to wait to get a sibling off the computer.

"It's always a good read"? How I just hate reading!

quote: Originally posted by JMarks Hey, someone make another poll! If you had to choose, would you prefere the manual in paper, or on the disk.

You do that!

	11-07-2001 19:26									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You missed the option I would pick:

I buy the game and read the start of the manual travelling home and while installing the game. Then I play the tutorial. Finally I start a proper game and dip into the manual whenever something crops up that the tutorial has not properly covered. Eventually I will have read it all, but usually over the course of several games and not usually in sequential order.

	12-07-2001 08:16									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't read the manual per se but I consult it if necessary. If a feature of a game confuses me, the manual usually helps, but I am really a fan by trial and error.

	12-07-2001 08:29									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I like to first play the game by trial and error. I don't actually start to read the manual until I get fairly good at the game. I start to read the manual then for small little details of information. If the manual doesn't offer me the small little details of info, I could care less about the manual.

	12-07-2001 10:13									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The Civilopedia was enough for me in Civ2. I don't see why it shouldn't be in Civ3.

	12-07-2001 11:27									#10
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quote: The Civilopedia was enough for me in Civ2. I don't see why it shouldn't be in Civ3.

The Civilopedia was helpful but it didn't provide a lot of information. I would like to have both for Civ3.

	12-07-2001 11:35									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Wish the civ 3 civilopedia would be searchable, just like Great Library in CtP II.

	12-07-2001 12:33									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I can't take the civilopedia to the toilet.

	12-07-2001 12:41									#13
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Yeah, the civilopedia was great. I didn't use it that much in Civ 1 - 2, I first got used to it in CTP II (Little late, but I was to ocupied playing the game )

I just hope it will be much better than the one in CTP II, and there should also be a tap for single words, cuz in CTP II there was a few words I didn't know...And guess what, the word book had also trouble with those words, eather it couldn't find the word or the word ment thousands of other words

	12-07-2001 12:42									#14
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Mannamagnus I can't take the civilopedia to the toilet.

Yes you can, if you have a laptop (Isn't that the name, can't remember)

	12-07-2001 12:48									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I generally just wade in and start playing the game. I learnt how to play civ the hard way with no manual whatsoever (I copied the game , well on the ST, but bought it for the PC when I first got one). Now I generally play the game with the manual at hand and other online resources. I have a flick through if there is something that is not clear. I am not new to the genre so it should be a gentle introduction with me getting used to new concepts and ideas but should be used to the core of the game.

	12-07-2001 13:34									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Remember how was I playing DOOM. I had the list of all secrets near me, and read it for the next level. When I approached the place, I put my nose in the papers, and dif whatever needed to get the secret.

	12-07-2001 17:37									#17
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold You missed the option I would pick: I buy the game and read the start of the manual travelling home and while installing the game. Then I play the tutorial. Finally I start a proper game and dip into the manual whenever something crops up that the tutorial has not properly covered. Eventually I will have read it all, but usually over the course of several games and not usually in sequential order.

Mostly the same of my approach. Only I usually read all the manual before the end of my first full game. Tutorial can or cannot be my first game: usually tutorials are first choice if it's a completely new game for me. For sequels or "clone" game usually I skip the tutorial, or I browse it later, just in case I miss anything.

	12-07-2001 17:59									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Mannamagnus I can't take the civilopedia to the toilet.

quote: Originally posted by ADG Yes you can, if you have a laptop (Isn't that the name, can't remember)

Well, I have a notebook, but I never used to bring with me in rest room/toilet/bathroom

I commute by train every working day, so I used to play SMAC (and others games) during my voyage. Sometime I played while eating, but only when my wife and sons aren't around at home

	12-07-2001 18:13									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I used to get through a phenomenal number of bowls of cornflakes when playing civ

For when civ3 comes out, I am considering having the fridge moved next to the computer desk Failing that, to just go on an intravenous drip, with a bit of caffeine in there as well

	13-07-2001 00:05									#20
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

game s are the most fun when you learn by playing.

that is how i started Civ1 and it was the most fun... it took until civ 2 until I got to know what are all these options for.

With a good manual ame isn't fun anymore after a few times.

You have to learn slowly to get the most out of the game, and I presume the satisfaction of beating mighty AI is therefore greater.

I think that one of my mosyt satisfying games was when I managed to win as warlord in CIV1 the first time.

That was the most fun. Since I struggled for a long time and the win was almost like Ivanisevic winning Wimbeldon

	18-07-2001 14:46									#21
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I usually do what Grumbold does. I also once pulled a Provost with Railroad Tycoon (no manual)

Of course, I'm talking about normal games with interfaces that can be used by humans.

	18-07-2001 17:43									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

As the voice of the environment (see Global Warming post), might I suggest a much better Civilopedia AND the manual as an Acrobat file (along with an Acrobat reader) on the CD rom and NO PAPER MANUAL. This will cut down on costs and the result should be a reduced cost for the players.

Another reason I'm pushing for no included manual is that 99% of CivIII players will be vetern CivII players and won't need to read any thick tome. I played CivI for about 1.5 years before discovering CivII. I don't think I ever more than browsed through the CivII manual because I pretty much already knew everything (or at least I thought I did...).

	18-07-2001 17:58									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, paper doesn't grow on trees ya' know!

	18-07-2001 18:33									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by JMarks Yeah, paper doesn't grow on trees ya' know!

Exactly, you must cut trees to produce paper, you know

Of course trees grow... but slower than the use of printed papers

	18-07-2001 18:40									#25
	Support Apolyton

Your probably right, though I would like to see the statistics of trees 'reaching age' and 'just starting to grow' (as opposed to trees planted by industry, though you can throw that one in two, just as long as it doesn't replace the former two) to trees cut down. That would be an intersting statistic to see. Fittstim, know where to find them? You are basing this fact, right?

Ioanes

	19-07-2001 06:31									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I usually flip through the manual while the game is installing. . then go play for a little while (few hours). . and THEN read the manual cover to cover.

	19-07-2001 07:46									#27
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by TechWins I like to first play the game by trial and error. I don't actually start to read the manual until I get fairly good at the game. I start to read the manual then for small little details of information. If the manual doesn't offer me the small little details of info, I could care less about the manual.

This also the way I play. When in trouble read the manual. However I almost always buy the Strategies Guides.
NoteThe Guides for CTP 1 & 2 are a waste of money) The Guides for Civ 1, 2, & SMAC very good.

	19-07-2001 15:42									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I remember reading a good part of the civ2 manual on the way home after I had just bought the game. However I now drive, so that option isn't really feasible.

Well I learnt civ in it's entirety without a manual or anything. I like to figure things out from the beginning without this kind of help, except for some of the basic rules and aims and how to do certain things.

I just like to get stuck in with minimal assistance, apart from what is a necessity. But as you get more advanced, it is good to have a very detailed manual for reference...

	20-07-2001 02:53									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Civilization II is about the ONLY game I have ever read the manual through before I played it. In many games I either go through a tutorial or just jump right in.

However, I had to go on a trip not long after I got Civ 2, so I took the manual with me. I read through just about everthing in it. It kept me pretty occupied.
And one thing I think it really did, as some one else mentioned, it made me a lot more excited about the game.

	20-07-2001 06:02									#30
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Manuals are very important. Some of my favorite games are the ones with the long manuals (Civ2, Baldur's Gate, BG II, Fallout, Fallout 2).

It should be interesting and detail some strategies and hints as well as interesting information, etc.