11-07-2001 20:47									#1
	Upgrade Or Build New? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm sure someone here has researched this at least once. So which is the best strategy. Upgrade that rover or plane, or simply take the time to build a new one. I know if your in a tight spot, the answer is obvious, but for normal peace time operations which is the best for the buck. I have seen on this forum where someone said that on one should ever have a big surplus of credits. He/she should always be using it to upgrade and rush.

I'd appreciate any comments.

	11-07-2001 20:52									#2
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i'd rather build a new one if my production rate is high. then i'd have two of them and i could always upgrade the old one later.

but i think if you're playing pirates, where your strength is energy production, better to build vanilla units and upgrade as necessary.

just my $0.02

	11-07-2001 21:29									#3
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I usually upgrade at least to some degree, using the initial production to have basic unit with morale upgrade, then upgrade. No so much on naval or air units, since the production cost savings isn't as great. But definitely on most garrison or infantry units (seeking the elusive elites).

	11-07-2001 21:45									#4
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My goal is to never have to rebuild anything. I hate taking combat losses, even if I can more than afford it, and even if the morale of my troops are marginal at best, I'll generally upgrade them rather than rebuild. Doing so costs me nothing but energy (which I've generally got in good supply), and it keeps my production queues doing what I want them doing--prototyping or building infrastructure. I regard the military as secondary in any case though, so I'm prolly not the best person to ask...lol

Oh...one kinna cool thing to do though....if you DO use the "upgrade everything" plan and you find yourself with a whole wad of green troops with good equipment....send them out as mercs! (more fun in MP). Let somebody hire you for escort duty or to patrol a certain area of the globe, maybe even participate in a few battles there. The worst that'll happen is that you'll lose a few marginal units, and if you don't, they're almost certain to get morale boosts!

-=Vel=-

	11-07-2001 21:53									#5
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i guess it all depends on your style of play (hybrid or builder)

if you're builder, like vel, you'd have plenty of cash around, and you'd want to build infrastructure. if you're hybrid like me, you'd have the cash (though not plenty) and you'd have the mineral resource. another thing you'd have is not being too restrictive on your build queue.

"sure, that quantum convertor is important, but i fear miriam might launch an attack soon. her rovers are 5 turns away. i can churn out one in 3 turns. that'll give me an extra rover to retal should she come this way..."

	11-07-2001 22:03									#6
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A lil more discussion of this exact issue from last week here:Upgrades in early July

A lot more detailed analysis here:The Bible of upgrades



-Smack

	11-07-2001 22:16									#7
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I genrally prefer to build the best "shell" unit that the base can, using only one turn's worth of mineral production, and then upgrade it from there.

A cool trick you can pull off with this...

Give the shell unit High Morale(it costs nothing extra when given to a basic scout patrol). When you upgrade the unit, it will keep the +1 morale, even if you take away the High Morale power!

Who says you have your cake, and eat it, too?

	11-07-2001 22:20									#8
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yes, but if you rehome the unit to, say your punishment base (necessary if running FM), the +1 morale will disappear.

	11-07-2001 22:56									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Iskandar Reza yes, but if you rehome the unit to, say your punishment base (necessary if running FM), the +1 morale will disappear.

Does it still happen if you rehome the unit before upgrading? Is it a Children's Creche thing?

Does someone know the details on what happens when you disband a unit in a base (I believe you get nothing back if you disband outside a base). I think I know that you get some mins credited against your current build (at least if you are building a prototype or SP) if you disband inside a base, but I don't know how much or whether it matters what you are building in the base. I mostly do it when I have some weak green units I can do without and/or a need to speed up a build, so the exact payback wouldn't necessarily determine whether or not I did it, but I would like to know exactly what the options are.

I think that another reason for upgrading (or disbanding) obsolete units is to keep the total number of (workshop) designs from getting too high, which IMhO, is asking for trouble with unpleasant "features". Ever since I resolved to keep my # of designs down, I have been spared problems with disappearing units, etc.; I try to watch out for this especially when I am near to getting a new reactor, when new designs will suddenly appear (sometimes new reactors come out of the blue too, like a trade or gift, so I try to keep on top of it in general).

	12-07-2001 01:00									#10
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I'm gonna have to try that mercenary idea, Vel, it looks like fun.

In other news, I personally build in peacetime, and when war comes around, upgrade as needed. That saves me the most energy for peacetime who-knows-what, and the most minerals for wartime production.

	12-07-2001 19:09									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Iskandar Reza yes, but if you rehome the unit to, say your punishment base (necessary if running FM), the +1 morale will disappear.

I never noticed it disappearing. I know the morale bonus from the creche only applies at the base. I've seen my elite garrisons (CN+CF+high morale) stay elite when divvied up among new or newly-conquered bases.

As for the disbanding thing, I never counted but have always assumed it was 1/2 the minerals it would take to build one - like in Civ2. I agree completely about keeping your unit count down, not just in active the workshop but obsolete-but-still-around. It's a pain to cycle through and find them all, but it beats losing a base when its garrison vanishes!

	13-07-2001 00:34									#12
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Smack, too bad Mario never replied to Dimention in that Upgrade Bible thread, because it looks to me like Dimention, in his testing/examples that dominate the bottom of the thread, completely ignored the fact that you can get more minerals by downgrading the reactor of a crawler. If I get the time, I'll run a cost benefit table the same way he did and see what I get, but I bet you can get better value than he did by downgrading to a fission reactor.

	13-07-2001 01:29									#13
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What is the upgrade Bible thread? Sounds interesting

	13-07-2001 21:51									#14
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I agree with Vel's remarks, except in the case where a new unit would be elite. If I can trade in a "disciplined" garrison, for a new "elite" shell, I do it, then urgrade as needed.

Sometimes this happens because during the course of the game you built or "otherwise acquired" the Command Nexus or Cyborg Factory, or maybe you just found a nearby Monolith or learned the "trained" tech.

I would rather have a clean ,trained elite garrison, than one with a lower morale and a special ability like AA or ecm.

The reason being that the Elite unit gets both the extra movement point and the morale bonus. The ecm unit may be stronger against a rover for example, but the Elites' bonus will bolster its strength against ANY attack making it more flexible and therefore more difficult to plan an attack against.

Also the new unit is likely to have a stronger armor , and being clean will free up your precious minerals for production rather than having them tied up (wasted, turn after turn) in units.

	13-07-2001 22:51									#15
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DH, scroll up to Smack's post, and click on the link.