12-07-2001 00:21									#1
	If What We Have Seen Of Civ III's Terrain Is All There Is, It Sucks! Increase Your PM Length

We have just recieved a whole passle of new screenshots, and every one of them is the same as before, terrain-wise. In all the screenshots we've seen to date, we see:

Brown mountains.

Pea green rivers and shallows.

Azure seas.

Scrubby forests.

Sandy deserts.

Arid looking plains, grasslands, and hills.

In other words, every continent we've seen so far looks like Southern California or the Mediterranean. There is no sense of changing global climatic zones. I've seen no snow-capped mountains, no dense primeval forests, no lush tropical jungles, no icy tundra, no glaciers, no swampy lowlands, no frigid (and blue) northern seas.

I was really hoping that Firaxis would refine its terrain generator so that it would generate the kinds of climatic variations and zones we find on planet earth. This would only enhance and deepen the exploration experience and offer unique challenges and advantages depending on which climatic zone one inhabited.

If, instead, the entire Civ-globe is to be Southern California/Mediterranean in appearence, Firaxis has blown it big time, IMHO.

	12-07-2001 01:53									#2
	Got spare money?

I wouldn't leap to conclusions. I would bet good money that they would have more than Brown mountains. Pea green rivers and shallows. Azure seas. Scrubby forests. Sandy deserts. Arid looking plains, grasslands, and hills. .

I'm sure someone has a link to some pictures with glaciers/tundra for a start.

	12-07-2001 02:29									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Certainly a valid concern considering Firaxis is talking about a "Fall release"! One can still hope they're just holding back the good stuff to surprise us later, right? Right? ...

	12-07-2001 02:37									#4
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I share your optimism Yin........but but......from the way Firaxis has seemed to "handle" the development of civ3.....it wouldn't suprise me if we don't see snow capped mountains.

The most annoying thing for me so far though is the way the roads are simply pasted on top of the mountains.

	12-07-2001 02:52									#5
	Got spare money?

"If, instead, the entire Civ-globe is to be Southern California/Mediterranean in appearence, Firaxis has blown it big time, IMHO."

Blown it big time?

If Firaxis gave each of you a million dollar check you'd all be complaining about the color of the ink.

	12-07-2001 05:00									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

image: My vain attempt at posting almost 100 non-spam posts tonight to get up to 400. Well over 30 so not bad. two more nights You know you've been up too long when the milk in the cereal bowl from the breakfast you had at 1:00am because there's nothing else edible in the house starts to congeal and grow like something out of Evolution

and back to the thread. All I can say is hopefully we'll be able to change the graphics and believe me I'll be one of the first to do so. those mountains are so goddamn ugly. And the roads that should be behind the mountains actually show up in front of them. It's like something from a blenderer's nightmare.

	12-07-2001 05:06									#7
	Got spare money?

Great that's just great almost forty non-spam posts and my last one I have to spam cause I forgot the image typical

Why can't we upload an image by editing the message??

Attachment: vain.jpg
This has been downloaded 370 time(s).

	12-07-2001 06:53									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I agree whole heartedly that the graphics are a major let down. From what I've seen of screen shots, it seems that we are to be subjected yet again to the incredibly ugly knot of roads and railways that the pathetic Firaxis artists seem only to be able to produce. The roads across the mountains are hideous. I find even the grey/black cities to be an eye sore.

I would rather see a major focus on a pleasing map and landscape, than clever animated units. For at the end of the day, when you sit back to survey your civilisation, it is not the units that catch your eye, but the sprawl of your kingdom.

Despite this, I believe the game will be worthwhile for the fantastic gameplay improvements. However, it would be nice to have the cake with nice icing though.

Bkeela.

	12-07-2001 13:59									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I realy like the graphics. I think they look fresh and will not distract my attention from the game. The only minus I can remember is the river/mountain tile.

	12-07-2001 14:06									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It's a shame that Apolyton don't do official polls anymore.
It would be nice to see what people think of the grafics, but theese small polls by anybody has created an inflation in participants.
(Couse right now I'd vote for CTPII-graphics.)

	12-07-2001 20:55									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Chronus If Firaxis gave each of you a million dollar check you'd all be complaining about the color of the ink.

I'd certainly complain about ink so faded the cashier wouldn't accept it! The rest, I'd cash in a hurry then wait for it to clear before coming back to ***** about how bad it was

Seriously though, I'd be happier with the colour range and terrain diversity of Civ2.

	12-07-2001 21:40									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Chronus If Firaxis gave each of you a million dollar check you'd all be complaining about the color of the ink.

Nobody told me that was an option

The graphics seem way too much like CTP, without the kind of diversity I'd like to see. Completely flat, level terrain with these mountains shooting out of them, rivers whose course ignores local terrain (and physics), and some seriously funny looking mountain roads.

I agree with bkeela that an improved overall appearance would make me happier than animated units (which I'll probably turn off it that's an option).

	12-07-2001 22:39									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have to agree that the mountains look a little silly...maybe if they didn't stick out so much, they'd look better. Even better would be mountain ranges, so that mountains that were next to each other would be connected. The mountains that have hills around them look much better, in comparison.

I have a feeling that these aren't the final road and river graphics, but I'm having a hard time imagining a simple way to show players that a tile has a road/river, especially on the mountains.

I believe if they lowered the terrain a bit, it would have a better overall effect

	12-07-2001 23:36									#14
	Got spare money?

Personally I like quite alot of the graphics, including the terrain. I'm not a great believer that everything has to be realistic but it does need to be consistant. And from what I see there is a consistant theme that runs through it. Didn't I read a Firaxis interview where they based the graphics on a particular famous painting? (Not sure which one or what it looks like.)

At least I know it is a moutain by looking at it which is 10 times better than SMAC. As to the diverisity there is a fair bit - there are different kind of trees and moutains. Also we are seeing it at a distance - which is needed to have it proper scale.

So, basically, I like it!

	12-07-2001 23:49									#15
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we need better looking irrigation, and a bette color mix.

Bluer sea, brown/ white mountains. maybe even green ones (mountines in the jungle)

We could have a cpombination of a hill and wood, as well as a plain hill only.

i am not sure if too many therrains would be too hard for AI/ PC, but if not than at least existing terrain types copuld be a bit better looking.

Hopefully they will allow players to modify terrain and put their own 'imagination' at work.

	12-07-2001 23:53									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Let's form a league to get a completely new set of graphics as soon as the game comes out.

	13-07-2001 01:28									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I still push for 3-D terrain. I have said all along that this look for graphics is not going to cut it in today's computer gaming market. I just don't want to have to play this game for multiple years with updated Civ 2 graphics, I push for updated SMAC graphics (yes colors to dark but that can be changed).

But that is just me.

	13-07-2001 02:09									#18
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Remember: (a) The graphical concept of this game was to model the looks on that picture of the tower of babel by that Dutch guy I can't remember the name of. I think it's an interesting idea and well excecuted, but even if you disagree you must give them the credit of actually having created a congruent graphical theme that was opposed to your idea rather than simply ommitting anything. If mountains are only brown, there is a reason for it other than "lack of time".

(b) These graphics are vastly superior to SMAC's, not to mention CtPs. Look at screenshots of those games again and compare. To call them sub-SMAC is laughable. The decision not to use the cumbersome pseudo-3D terrain system of SMAC was not a graphical decision, it was a gameplay decision.

	13-07-2001 02:59									#19
	Remove this text

Thanks for the tip Snapcase. I found the painting it is here.

and it's by Abel Grimmer (1570-1619)....

	13-07-2001 03:42									#20
	Suffering from ads?

Undoubtedly the graphics are better than prior incarnations. I would have no trouble playing with them. Even so, it doesn't hurt to give our opinions. I like my mountains pointy and snow-capped.

After looking at the screenshots again, it does look like the roads and rivers are plastered on the top of the map. Perhaps terrain tilesets that incorporate the roads and rivers would be better, even if they take a bit longer to make.

	13-07-2001 06:24									#21
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If the Civ3 graphics are based off of Abel Grimmer, then the game is going to look like a Renassance Painting through all the ages. It would be very impressive if the interface (and possably the graphics) changed with the time period.

Firaxis should have picked Bob Ross as their guide If you know who he is, I hope you get a laugh from that

	13-07-2001 07:48									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: I'd certainly complain about ink so faded the cashier wouldn't accept it! The rest, I'd cash in a hurry then wait for it to clear before coming back to ***** about how bad it was

quote: Nobody told me that was an option

LOL!

I'm glad to see my last post wasn't taken all that seriously. Then again, NONE of my posts are taken seriously!

	13-07-2001 09:03									#23
	Re: If What We Have Seen Of Civ III's Terrain Is All There Is, It Sucks! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Arator If What We Have Seen Of Civ III's Terrain Is All There Is, It Sucks!

Here! Here!

	13-07-2001 09:16									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

it is good enough for a Turn based startegy game... this game is not about the latest greatest graphics but the best damn strategy gaem ever

	14-07-2001 00:18									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

that's true, rasputin, but as long as you're making graphics, you might as well make them look nice, right? I know that we all say we don't care what the graphics look like as long as the gameplay is good. Well, I'm pretty sure I would stick to Civ2 if Civ3 were in Extended ASCII

Seriously, though- We're all going to get this game, but what about those who have never seen a civ game..they're going to judge it by the way it looks.

	14-07-2001 00:34									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

I agree with rasputin, its ok for a strategy game, I do want to be able to play this game on a PC built within the last MONTH
Before anyone starts saying, well it won't take that much more to get better graphics IT WAS A JOKE. The specifics given already equal my machine P 300

	14-07-2001 00:39									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I agree with rasputin, its ok for a strategy game, I do want to be able to play this game on a PC built within the last MONTH
Before anyone starts saying, well it won't take that much more to get better graphics IT WAS A JOKE. The specifics given already equal my machine P 300

	14-07-2001 03:53									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Snapcase Remember: (a) The graphical concept of this game was to model the looks on that picture of the tower of babel.

Huh? Great painting, but is it really a picture of crisp clarity for modelling a computer game on? I think not.

	14-07-2001 04:00									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i concur.

but it's to late for a massive gfx overhaul.

	14-07-2001 07:47									#30
	Got spare money?

quote: graphics

Well I hope they take another look at the roads on the Mountain.
The rest of the graphics are OK by me.