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debeest
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In the current barbarian habits thread, DaveV commented that he believes the Super Barbarian is an urban legend (I agree), but went on to comment that barbarians are often tough because of a 150% deity attack bonus. I remember a thread from a few months ago where we beat to death the question of the mathematics of attack and defense. Nowhere in that thread do I remember anything about a deity attack bonus, and I'm sure there is not one. Except I'm also sure that DaveV would whup my booty in a comparison or multi-player game, even though I try and try to emulate his style. Anybody else have reason to think there's such a bonus?
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debeest
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Is that coded in somewhere so that we can verify it other than by watching thousands of barbarian combats?
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:12
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The information was taken from the "Civ 2 Official Strategy Guide", p41. It's a useful chart:
GAME C W P K E D
FEATURE
Starting 50 0 0 0 0 0
funds
Content
citizens 6 5 4 3 2 1
Rows in
food box 15 13 12 10 9 8
Rows in
shield box 15 13 12 10 9 8
Science
Increments
(human) 6 8 10 12 14 14*
Science
Increments
(computer) 14 13 12 11 10 10*
Barbarian
attack
strength 25% 50% 75% 100% 125% 150%
*On Deity level, this number may be adjusted + or - 1, depending how far ahead or behind you are in research
Science increments (human) = the modifier used to help determine how many science light bulbs are required to discover the next advance for the player. Smaller the number, the more quickly advances are discovered
Science increments (computer) = the same, for computer-controlled civs.
Some other level-based info. Some may already know it, some may not:
CHIEF LEVEL - The attack factor of your units is doubled. Also, you are not charged the 50% shield penalty when you change the item being built in mid-production.
PRINCE (and higher) - The AI-controlled civs may be "assisted" by the computer if you are significantly ahead in technology, especially in the case of Civ Advance research. Also, the higher the difficulty level, the more likely alliances will be formed against you. At the higher levels, the AI will try harder to build spaceships; and if you are the first to launch a spaceship, the computer-controlled civs often team up to achieve your destruction (regardless of treaties).
EMPEROR & DEITY - AI-controlled civs can bribe your cities. Also, AI civs won't trade you any techs that allow you to build a Wonder that they are already building.
------------------
finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
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debeest
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Wow! Lots of stuff there I didn't know. Thanks, Finbar.
I assume the Official Strategy Guide is a book, not something I could access directly on the Web (for free)? Is it really official, so that we can be pretty confident it's accurate, or is it just somebody's conclusions? Conclusions can easily be wrong: I, for example, recently decided to find out (for the AI cheats thread) exactly how the numbers-of-food-and-shields-needed-by-the-AI varies according to level, and since the empty box itself shrinks below 10-size at high levels but doesn't grow beyond 10-size at low levels, I concluded that it was 10 for levels 1 through 4. But just now I created a first-level game and cheat-observed a couple dozen turns, and lo and behold, the StratGuide is right and I was wrong.
But I can't figure out an interpretation of the science numbers that makes sense to me. The number of beakers needed for the next advance is [the number of the next advance] multiplied by [an integer that varies up and down but mainly grows as you progress]. There are factors that alter that integer up or down (your tech position vs. the AI is the only one I know), but the numbers you listed from the StratGuide have no relationship to the beaker calculation that I can see. Can you explain?
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debeest
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Last night I created a situation with dozens of barbarian battleships adjacent to dozens of my own and let 'em rip. My conclusion was, yes, the barbs have an attack advantage at deity, but no defense advantage. I think that probably agrees with the StratGuide. Interesting that they gave them an advantage only in attacking.
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Edward
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quote:
Originally posted by debeest
Is it really official, so that we can be pretty confident it's accurate, or is it just somebody's conclusions? |
I've come to trust the information on this board more than books. And heaven forbid you should believe something in the Civilopedia. However, all finbar's book's statements (except the one about science increments being adjusted by only +/- 1) seem accurate to me.
quote:
Originally posted by debeest
But I can't figure out an interpretation of the science numbers that makes sense to me. ...Can you explain? |
See the ground-breaking, nobel-prize-winning work by samson (standing on the shoulders of giants) in the Great Library under "beakers". Specifically, read how your research rate is not based on how scientifically far ahead you are in general, but instead on how far ahead (or behind) you are compared to your "key civ":
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001828.html?17
And then an amazing and true formula for how your exact beakers needed are determined:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001831.html?6
The summary being that if you're behind your key civ by any number of techs (which generally only happens if you have some free starting techs) you get a meager -1 or -2 bonus to your base. If you're ahead of your key civ, you get a +1 penalty per 3 techs you're ahead by. Since there's not limit to this penalty, you'll pay out the nose if your key civ is eliminated or never started.
p.s.
quote:
Originally posted by debeest
Sadly, the AI is nearly invulnerable to barbarians. I don't know what its exact bonus is, but typically the barbarians need a 4:1*advantage to have a chance. ...I've not uncovered any testing done to come up with the actual ratio. |
Marquis de Sodaq, your guesstimate looks a lot like the AI getting Chieftain bonuses against barb attacks.
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22-09-2000 08:04
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