27-09-2000 16:30									#1
	Do you open hut before reaching monarchy? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

(Deity Question)

I've read where people won't tip a goody until they are at least researching Monarchy, as a non-critical advance will delay getting there. (Except if you already have 2 of alphabet, code of laws and poly(?) and are researching the third, as you must get one-non critical advance before Monarchy becomes available.

I've also read where people (Ming) are reluctant to even found a city until they have tipped a hut and gotten a non-unit.

What do YOU think?

	27-09-2000 16:52									#2
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I tip all the huts I can (before and after having any cities), with one exception. I ignore huts in two move terrain squares, especially if they're near my cities.

I prefer having the unit alive and out there exploring, tipping huts.

Carolus

	27-09-2000 16:58									#3
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Against the computer, I will usually not start a city until I've tipped a few huts in hopes of a non unit or two. Now, If I don't see any on the openning screen, and none are near by, and there is a a great city location... I'll start the city. Even if I get a science or two, it doesn't really matter against the AI.

In MP, I'll tip any hut I find early... Even If I have placed a city down. An early non unit (or even an attached one) can make all the difference in exploring quickly and finding more huts or city locations, or if it is money, you can buy up the first rack on your first settlers.
Even if you get a science, it could be one on the path to Monarchy, or that "one" science you need off the path so that you can go straight to monarchy.

However, once I'm past that "non path" science (via research or one from a hut already) I may not open a hut until I'm working on Monarchy. There are some situations where I will, but I will usually hold off if I know I can cash it later.

	27-09-2000 17:00									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Early in the game, that is. Later, when I have defences in my cities, I tip everything.

Carolus

	27-09-2000 18:01									#6
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IN MP, If it's before I create my first city, automatically tip it. I have even delayed building my capital for one turn (at most two turns) for a crack at a non-unit. With no risk of barbs and with the only bad outcome of getting the dreaded warrior code, the higher probability of a good reward easily overshadows the risk. Once One city is down and at least has a warrior in it, still tip it (with anything but your second non-settler. Because if you get barbs, even if it's annoying, your capital is secure thanks to the invincable warrior theory. Just don't settle you second city till it attacks or wanders off. After you have two cities down I think about it for a few brief seconds THEN I OPEN IT. (unless it's will be inside the city range of my next imminent city and I can delay tipping it for a few turns to eliminate the risk of barbs.)
The only other time that I will not tip a hut is when I'm one turn away from being able to select monarchy to research, but the next turn tip it. (sometimes you get monarchy)

I think you get the idea. At most I will delay tipping a hut for a turn or two, but I will tip it quickly. The rewards far outstrip the negatives.
Tip hut Tip hut Tip Hut

ANALYSIS
Good

Money to help speed up round of settlers.
Free city to expand faster.
Non-settler to expand faster and smarter
Military unit, Non unit/two movement. to go out an explore future city sites and tip more huts. If you get an attached archer you can send it back to your capital and put the extra row of shields that you would have used to build a warrior towards a settler to help you expand a little quicker.

sometimes good/sometimes not so good.

Tech, may slow you down, but may speed you up. And even if it's the dreaded warrior code, you can still go for feudalism and the war academy. There are worse things.
And I can think of many times that I've gotten the science that I was researching and helped me get to monarchy by 3250.

BAD
Barbs. Ok, early in an MP game when you are resetting if the host gets techs, it usually takes awhile before you see legions from huts. Sometimes you survive the barb attack (if on good terrain which is likely if you're playing a small map and sometimes vet status) and if not, oh well, Sh*t happens.

In MP the best players expand expand expand. Huts can jump start that faster than anything else. My question is why wouldn't you tip a hut?

In SP, it doesn't matter what you do, the AI will lose anyway.


RAH
I love playing with people that don't tip them.

	27-09-2000 22:40									#7
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I tip everything sometimes not using the two movement rule, at which point i behead myself when barbs kill me

I agree with most everyone here, tipping far outweighs the risks, and i have yet to experience with my limited playing, the barb killing my second settler thingy i guess its only a matter of time

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	28-09-2000 04:50									#8
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Agggggghhhhhhhh! This question haunts me. In MP. In SP, against the AI, the answer's obvious. Tip, tip, tip.

But MP? For all the extremely eloquent and perfectly logical theories posited above, the memories of tipping Warrior Code, followed by Iron Working, followed by The Wheel - prior to Monarchy - are burned into my psyche. I make pacts with myself not to tip a hut before I'm at least researching Monarchy. I threaten to fine myself exorbitant amounts - or punch myself in the nose at the very least - if I tip before Monarchy.

Like the kid in the proverbial chocolate shop, sometimes I can resist the urge. Until, one day, my inherent, ingrained lack of willpower - that which has me playing Civ when I swore I wouldn't because I had a pressing work deadline - takes over. The internal conversation is the same every time:

+ "Gawn! Tip the hut. Just that one. It'll be a freebie Horseman. Imagine the exploration, the defence against barbs, the 150 gold. Just this one hut. Just this one ... "

+ "Bugger off! I've been burned before!"

And so on, back and forth. Of course, good old curiosity wins out. The hut is tipped. And it's a freebie Horseman. And he cleans up a barb leader.

+ "Told you so! Coward!"

+ "Bugger off! Smartarse!"

Next time around, the internal conversation is shorter.

+ "Well? Coward?"

+ "Okay then ..."

It's Iron Working.

+ "Win some, lose some"

+ "Go to hell! I'm never listening to you again!"

And I don't. For a while. Until next time.

To tip or not to tip, that is the question. Actually, that's what Shakespeare originally wrote. It's a little known fact that he was a Civ player ahead of his time.



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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	28-09-2000 05:01									#9
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The key thing in MP is that you can't allow your opponent to dash out to an early lead. One of the ways he can do that is by tipping several good huts. If you're just hanging around your starting position, hiding your head in the sand, someone will come along and kick the exposed part of your anatomy .

I like to research horseback as one of my very first techs, to accelerate hut hunting. One big advantage (that no one has mentioned) of revealing a lot of the map while hut hunting is that you can see the barb rebels coming (and prepare a suitable reception party).

	28-09-2000 16:32									#10
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Great advice and insight!

a-tippin' I will go, a-tippin' I will go, hut, hut, the goody hut, a-tippin' I will go.

	28-09-2000 17:58									#11
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So long as I am on a fairly large land mass (Playing SP) I dont build a city for a long while (up to around 2000BC). Just tipping huts usually gives me enough NONE units; and techs; to get a winning start.
I mostly play bloodlust on a large map at Diety. With spaceships this tactic always wins for me. (as do most other start tactics come to think of it)

	28-09-2000 18:47									#12
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Only if that hut is already in the range of a city, because in that case I am (almost) sure to get a unit.
I looooove building a warrior in my new city, then go and trigger that small hut and get a legion or a chariot.
I am not 100% sure I always got a unit but I don't remember having got something else... may be money... not sure...
But what I am 100% sure of is, I never got barbarians.

	28-09-2000 20:20									#13
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Dry... you are correct that you won't get barbarians or an advanced civ that way.
However, you can still get a tech, money, or units.
I've never seen a free settler from one, but that doesn't mean for sure that it can't happen.
And none of these are bad things... unless a tech kills you on your way to monarchy

	28-09-2000 22:24									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Getting a unit could be bad in some situations as well, since the unit would be supported. possible worst case scenario is you are a despotism and build a setter the following round to shrink back to 1. If you are already supporting a martial law unit, the game may choose your settler as the unit to disband because it decided the fish was better to work than the whale

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Sleep is a luxury and I don't have Shakespeare's Theatre in my back yard.

	29-09-2000 01:06									#15
	Got spare money?

One potential drawback in building a city near an untipped hut is that if a worker is put on that square, it will erase the hut. So watch out for huts on pheasants, wheat, oasis, shield grass, or other squares the AI likes.