22-09-2000 08:24									#1
	barbarian archers and legions defense Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

More than once recently, I've seen the claim that barbarian archers and legions have a defensive strength of only one rather than the normal two. Is this true? How do we know? What do you all think?

	22-09-2000 11:50									#2
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I'd've thought the only way the defence strength can be reduced is by injury.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
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	22-09-2000 16:39									#3
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I think it's hard-coded that barb archers have a defense of 1. I've attacked barb archers with (non-vet) horses many, many, times, and won far more often than not, even on woods, swamps, or rivers. I don't think it's just an attack bonus for horsemen - one game I attacked two barb archers on hills with bribed barb archers, and won both attacks with very little damage. I've never read anything "official" about this, but I always act as if barb archers have an attack of 4.5 and a defense of 1. I'm not often disappointed in my results.

I have a lot less experience with barb legions, but that limited experience leads me to think that they have a defense of 2.

	22-09-2000 17:47									#4
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mmm..., if I link this post with the one of "Do you want to declare war against the Barbarians?", it makes me think to some kind of sneak attack bonus.
If the human is 'at peace' with the barbarian civilization, then it should benefit from some sneak attack bonus (and vice versa)...

	22-09-2000 20:36									#5
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Really? Is there a sneak attack bonus? I've never seen any evidence of that.

	23-09-2000 02:56									#6
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all i've ever seen is a sneak attack penalty. Even if you cancel the attack, you lose 1 movement point. And besides the reputation hit you take, there is always the government collapse if you are in a representative government.

So, does your democracy collapse if you sneak attack the barbarians? I've never had that situation before.

	26-09-2000 19:46									#8
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Yes, I really think there is a sneak attack bonus.
I have noticed that the AI was always incredibly lucky on its first (and only on the first one) sneak attack, being (sometimes) able to kill a fortified rifleman with a partisan or so - thing that I never ever seen happen on 'normal' attacks.
I tried it by sneak attacking myself and noticed that indeed I also was always very lucky on the first attack.
I thus suspected a bonus on the fisrt attack.

	27-09-2000 07:27									#9
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I don't know whether it's a sneak attack bonus. Seems to me it depends on which unit strikes the first blow. If you watch the exchanges closely, you can see which unit does strike first. It's not always the attacker.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
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	03-10-2000 00:24									#10
	Remove this text

remember that with the GW, attack versus barbs is doubled.

	03-10-2000 01:20									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

having experienced what finbar has experienced, about the same amount of times too, i think it must be a glitch or IMO if you meet barbs who have conquered a whole civ color, maybe the game thinks of them for diplo reasons only of course as another civ... ?

	03-10-2000 18:35									#14
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[mendacity]I hate to be a pedant, but[/mendacity] shouldn't it be: "mus'n't've"?


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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

	03-10-2000 19:45									#15
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Technically, the contraction for 'must not' should be must'n't, and 'did not' did'n't etc. (one for the seperate words and another for the missing letter), but no-one does it because it looks plain stupid.

Pedant? Never.....




[This message has been edited by mark13 (edited October 03, 2000).]

	04-10-2000 08:33									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Ah yes, "guvment" what a word for the lexicon! Not to be confused with "govmeant". In the UK crime dramas the senior police officer is often called the "gov".(Governor) So we have lines that go
"govmeant interview him, not arrest him".
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SG (2)

	04-10-2000 11:44									#18
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I'll have to get you a job on The Bill, SG2.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591