13-07-2001 14:43									#1
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Which faction just gets under your skin? Which faction just evokes an emotional response and really ticks you off? (Strange how a non-existant person run by a computer code can make me so angry at times)

For me it used to be Miriam, until SMACX. Or Yang. But since I know what they're like anyway they don't piss me off as much. After all I know Miriam will be a real pain in the ass, no matter how noble my rep is, and I know that Yang is a jerk...I'm usually prepared to fight him and I won't trade tech with him for any reason since giving him any advantage is a bad idea...

But the new factions...man, Sinder Roze pisses me off. Its not just her "jazz" speech (which is silly) or the look on her face in the illustration. Its because no matter what she always ALWAYS backstabs me! I've had to start treating her like Yang in a way. No matter how long we're at peace I've got to make preparations to eventuallyt destroy her when I locate her in the game.

That goes for Morgan, too. But he's annoying because he's stupid. If he just left me alone in most games I wouldn't have to kill him. And why doesn't he EVER surrender?

And finally, the Pirates. I hate the pirates. I really do. Because it takes a lot of time and effort to hunt them down and kill them. In my latest game I didn't let the computer randomly select factions because I wanted to make sure the pirates weren't in the game.

Hmmmm.....and speaking of that game, Santiago really ticked me off with the ol' "I have the power to take what I want speech". Which was silly for her to say. She's at war with EVERYONE and getting spanked.....I have better weapons and armor than she does and shes really too far away to be a viable threat anyway.

So what faction, leader or statement really gets YOUR goat?

D4

	13-07-2001 15:46									#2
	Lal Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Lal and the Peacekeepers, a whiny pitiful little ***** cannot be found "dont use police state! i need some tech! will you help me against the spartans! i need credits! dont use PBS!

but when hes king **** of turd isle..."give me tech now or die,give me credits now or die,help me now or die,I have a pb AND YOUR GONNA DIE!

peace keeper my ass

	13-07-2001 17:13									#3
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Lal ticks me off too, mainly because he enjoys nothing more than uniting the other AI's in the noble quest to destroy the human player. My most memorable example was when I was gaians and was running demo, and being very peacefull.

Lal refused peace for the entire game (my democracy cant have been good enough ), preffering instead to pact with YANG and MIRIAM, even worse, I was at the bottom of the map, and he was at the top, and yang and miriam where between us, so to get Lal I had to get past his goons (the fecking coward!). Well, I had tried my best at diplomacy, so the only thing left was TOTAL ANNIHILATION, I nervegassed his pact mates back into the stoneage. But nervegas was too good for the peacekeepers, they got PLANET BUSTED, again and again and again until even the smoking craters were blasted into oblivion, best of all one solitary PK sea base remained, and there my locusts found Lal cowering , and they dragged him back to my punishment sphere. Bwahahahah.

Me and Lal never did get along too well after that game

(and Rozes no damn better, once she united every single enemy faction, including both aliens, against me, and I was barely first on the powerchart!)

	13-07-2001 17:41									#4
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YOW! Lotsa folks really hate Lal.

Lal has only been a real pain for me once that I remember. No matter what I did to get along with him, he just wouldn't accept a treaty, truce or what have ya. I spent the entire game fighting him and once he got missiles he went bananas. Its bad enough the AI can lob a missile at any range but every turn he slammed me with three or four. I finally decided that sanctions be damned an PB'd him. I normally don't use PB's unless someone launches at me, but Lal really ticked me off, especially since I didn't want to fight him.

Anyone ever get PB'd by the AI? Any time the AI has launched one at me I usually have ODP's to stop them. But once Yang hit me with one and wiped out most of the coast including my city with the Virtual World in it. (I had built the Telepathic Matrix so it didn't really cause to many problems.) I couldn't believe he did that! Incidentally, Yang is the only AI so far to use a PB on me at all.

(Though it was wierd the time Diedre got the tech first and then called me up to warn me that she....the tree hugging peacenik hippie...had developed the ultimate weapon!)



D4

	13-07-2001 17:45									#5
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Lal is a cur and needs to be chained out back. I know he's coming with a war before too long, but also know that he is typically a pushover. I find the Pirates most annoying. Sooner or later Sven will backstab you, whether you join him early in a Pact (which at least will buy you some time, and spare your sea-formers), or continue to defy him. At peace, he'll drop seabases right offshore, snatching up your improvements -- gotta make sure to haev a ring of seabases to prevent that. Takes time, money, expansion, bureaucracy, etc. Worse, when we finally are fighting, I have never had him surrender. Taking all those seabases is a big pain. If I can hold him off until D:AP and MMI it's not so bad . . .

	13-07-2001 18:58									#6
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I would have to say that the most irritating faction is the Peacekeepers as well. No matter what I do, Lal makes sure that I can't get along with anybody, let alone him...

	13-07-2001 20:28									#7
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Lal is completely irritating, what with his interest in knowledge and growth. Stupidly enough it's the base names that tick me off. 'UN rollover and die Base' is how I tend to read them. Unless you check him he'll get the governorship which isn't that big a deal but gives the other factions some idea that now its time to gang up on you.

But for me, it's Miriam that's the worst. Magically in 90% of my games, playing different factions, she's right nearby and totally techless. The problem with Miriam is that if I spend the time and resources to make her submit, I'm not going to get much tech out of it. If I don't, she invariably expands into annoying chokepoints and asks for war then anyways. She get's under my skin like no other. For some reason I can always forgive Yang. It seems like it's his sense of duty to be hive-like and annoying. Maybe it's Miriam's bible thumping that get's to me, I don't know. I've toyed with the idea of changing some of the diplomacy text, especially for her..next time she asks for tech and it's time to refute her maybe I'll be able to say: 'Ya know what Miriam, I've decided to become a believer, but my new faith dictates that I KICK YOU INTO THE SEA' or somesuch. I know I know, religion is a touchy issue and I think Firaxis did a nice job of piqueing the religious in us with Miriam without being too confrontational. For me, when I think of war-making religious states I get pretty jumpy. I hate seeing people hide their ambitions in their ideology. But anyways, this makes me interested in making a (painful thought) religious Mod where all the factions were believers or non-believers of one sort or another..hehe..there could be a human factions worshipping planet, and one declaring planet to be the devil, some monotheists, polytheists, atheists, and mystics..Hrmmm gotta think about that.

Smack

	13-07-2001 21:12									#8
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I think it would be interesting if there were two Christian factions. One would be Miriam, of course, and the other would be more pacifist and mellow, like Prespyterians. Obviously, they would still believe strongly in their faith, and be against the Believers' war-like style. The other factions would dislike them and kind of persecute them. It'd be fun, any comments?

	14-07-2001 01:10									#9
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Miriam and Santiago...

They pronounce Vendetta the first time I meet them by saying:

"(Your name and title), it is acustomary for me to permit to such minor factions, such as yourself, a small tethee/tax (or something) of 250(or something) energy credits."

etc.

This is just... **make disgusted and "it's not fair" face**

	14-07-2001 04:07									#10
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First, it was Yang, but after subjugating him a couple of times and finally finding playing on him quite nice, my target of anger became towards the infamous Sister.
I like to write fiction about Miriam, probably some primitive need to control your enemy.
And Miriam is always The One who backstabs you, makes others pronounce Vendetta on you...
And what comes to the Lal question, I usually pick on him as soon as possible, usually with Santiago/Zakharov. The governor post is otherwise useless, but if you can't anyway stop that plan to melt the polar caps, it really pisses you off.

	14-07-2001 16:32									#11
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Every faction ends up annoying me in some way, barring possibly the Cybernetic Consciousness, and I always play as them anyway...
What really really ticks me off, though, is that the other factions get to declare war on you just because you're running SE choices which conflict with their ideology. Why don't we get to do that?

Back on topic: Yes, Lal is annoying. He always ends up backstabbing me - he even did it once when he was #2 and I was #3 on the power chart...
Roze can be irritating, especially if she gets Planetary Governor - hellooooo all your tech funnelling straight to her - but I can't remember getting backstabbed by her...
Miriam & Yang don't tend to stick around too long - especially on small maps. They just ends up declaring war on everyone and we all get together to wipe them out.
Dee - just take those nasty dangerous probe teams away from her and she's ok.
Morgan - ugh, don't talk to me about Morgan. No, you stupid energy-grabbing SOaB, I'm not gonna run FM! And why, oh why, oh why does he declare war when he has three bases against my fifty-two and my troops are knocking on his door?
Domai - grr grr grr! He's always nice and peaceful at the beginning, but later in the game he always ends up declaring war.
Zakharov can be OK, but it's too easy - and fun - to probe him...hehe
The aliens just get wiped out too quickly to be bothered about.
Sven - ditto. However nice you are to him, eventually you know he's coming for you, so why not just get rid of him early? Watch out for the marine detachments though...
Cha Dawn goes down early too. Just too aggressive for his own good.

Santiago has to be the one who annoys me most. I'm always at war with her because of her 'Knowledge' aversion, which really irritates me. She also always demands energy almost the first time we meet - no chance!

	14-07-2001 19:22									#12
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quote: Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic Santiago has to be the one who annoys me most. I'm always at war with her because of her 'Knowledge' aversion, which really irritates me.

thats why i play random agendas. so you can run police state, and knowlege and not have santiago and miriam coming after you. and now that zak's agenda is FM you have a good excuse to wipe his @$$ out of monsoon jungle and take all his tech.

	15-07-2001 04:46									#13
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Here is my list, in order of dislike.

1. Lal. This nut is a whiney little.... (there ain't no word decent enough to be posted).. I just can't stand him. I hate his faction and idealogy to begin with.... Grrr!

2. Pirates. Sven is a pain in the rump, planting his bases right next door to yours, stealing your space, not to mention, making irresponsible extortion demands. Enough. I clobber him as soon as I get MMI.

3. Aliens. Warped thinking, stupid actions and totally stupid demands.

4. Roze. Backstabber deluxe. Judging from what I have read so far, 'nuff said. Vape her!

	15-07-2001 14:27									#14
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Lal is damn irritating, but he's not as much of a PIA as Santiago is if you let her get her survivalist fingers on the Command Nexus...ouch.

	16-07-2001 11:32									#15
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Is there anyone that doesn't hate Lal?

	16-07-2001 11:44									#16
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I like to play Morgan's industrial faction, so Lal is actually about the best faction to have as a neighbor. He likes democratic government and doesn't usually get too upset by laissez-faire capitalism.

- Scipio

	16-07-2001 19:48									#17
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I think that what I really don't like about him is the way he seems to smirk at you. Oh, wait, they all do...

It's not that I don't like facing Lal, but I dislike the UN to the point that I refuse to play as them. I think I played one game for 3 turns and then quit.

	17-07-2001 02:57									#18
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*Raises hand sheepisly*
I can suffice with Lal! The habitation complex limits relaxed, double vote at Elections and the general idea appeal to my dark side

	17-07-2001 03:08									#19
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Traitor! Die!

*stabs with, um, something Lal probably would sanction against*

	17-07-2001 08:24									#20
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Dunno what the fuss is about, Peace & Love and United Nations , what more do you want ? By the way 'Lal' is Hindi for 'Beloved' (according to the episode of Star-Trek where Data creates his Daughter by the same name).

	17-07-2001 16:33									#21
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Well, Peace and Love are all very well, but the problem is Lal doesn't stick to them! He Peace and Loves all the way up until the very second he backstabs you!

	17-07-2001 19:45									#22
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With me, he doesn't even "Peace & Love" from the very beginning...you'd think if I was the first faction he met on Planet, he'd at least try to be a little more friendly and be nice long enough to get governor...

	17-07-2001 23:22									#23
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Well, I vary my SE choices by game phase, and I really hate people that won't cut me a break because of my SE choices, so the people I hate are:

Early Game (Demo, Planned, Knowledge)
Miriam, Yang, Morgan, Sven, Santiago, Diedre, Fungus Boy

Mid-Game (Demo, Green, Knowledge)
Miriam, Yang, Morgan, Aliens, Santiago, Sven, Domai

Late Mid-Game (post CV & AV) (None, Green, Power)
Roze, Morgan, Aliens, Domai

Late Game (None, Green, Power, Cybernetic)
Roze, Morgan, Aliens, Domai



I kill Morgan on sight, usually hit the Aliens & Domai as quickly as possibly, and Roze occasionally too. I usually spank Diedre, Yang & Lal around but don't kill them unless I have too, because i can usually become friendly with them later. Same for Miriam, Santiago & the fungus boy, but if I see an easy opportunity to kill them I will, as they are accomplished backstabbers & renowned for hating me inspite of running their SE choice.

Sven is NEVER a problem for me. Withing 10-15 years of starting up Power, he invariably rolls over and becomes a Pact Brother with me. This is almost certainly because I never act hostile towards him. Which I do because he invariably rolls over and becomes a Pact Brother. Which probably happens because .... you get the point.

Of course, in the games where I completely dominate the power graph, it can get hard to persuade people to be helpful. But at least the smarter of the little insects know better than to declare vendetta on me.

They see what happens to the stupid little insects

Sergeant, hand me the can of Raid!

	17-07-2001 23:34									#24
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Fitz, who do you play as? I would really like Sven to invariably pact with me...instead of invariably taking my oceans and bases...

	18-07-2001 03:09									#25
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Everyone. *Thinks* Who can't run Power?

That's my default SE changes if a faction allows it and I'm being too lazy to think up real strats.

That's my experience from playing many different factions. Once I decided to play every faction on Librarian (I hadn't been playing long) with blind research on, must use factions research priority, completely random huge planet, but could use any SE. It took a while, since I don't have much time to play, but that series of games is primarily where my statements above come from.

My next challenge is probably going to be:
Random Huge planet, Trancend, must use govorners, automated formers, and faction research priority.
Can only change SE & Govorner priorities every ten years. Must use faction's preferred SE choice or none on that row.
Cannot use Advanced Govorner settings (turn all on) and use all terraform settings (all on).

Basically, I'm in control of where I expand and waging war.

	18-07-2001 03:14									#26
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I can't figure out this hatred of Lal! I always seek him out for some early tech trades. He's alwasy willing to trade a few key techs, and he especially like to share Doc Flex and Ethical Calculus. But Morgan is my favorite AI faction. I alwasy pact with him early and stay that way through the end game. It's good for lots of commerce.

	18-07-2001 03:32									#27
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Of course all factions are to be hated! They are your rivals, the goal being their eradication!

quote: ...Data creates his daughter by the same name...

The big question(s) is/are;

Did Roddenberry **** up and give Data's daughter a man's name?

Or did Reynolds **** up and give the UN leader a woman's name?

Or is it an androgynic name like 'Chris'?

Or is 'Lal' a girl's name in Hindi and a boy's name in some other language?

	18-07-2001 06:40									#28
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Ah, I've altered the faction text for Lal..his first base is now 'The World Bank' (of Chiron). It has a special ability. By loaning the other factions energy credits, it drives their industry down..all factions not considered 'Modern' now get: -1 Industry, -1Econ, -1Research, -5 Police, +3Growth while Lal is alive.

(Ok, that's not quite possible in the alphatext..)

	18-07-2001 19:26									#29
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Funny stuff Smack

Somehow I wouldn't be surprised...

	20-07-2001 01:29									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Smack Ah, I've altered the faction text for Lal..his first base is now 'The World Bank' (of Chiron). It has a special ability. By loaning the other factions energy credits, it drives their industry down..all factions not considered 'Modern' now get: -1 Industry, -1Econ, -1Research, -5 Police, +3Growth while Lal is alive. (Ok, that's not quite possible in the alphatext..)