14-07-2001 05:11									#1
	Top 5 reasons why I HATE Civ 2 Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Here are the top five reasons why i hate civilization 2: mge:

1. The AI
The AI players are pathetic, for starters, they always use my roads and hang around my area for no reason. because of zones of control, this is really bad. When in the diplomacy screen, the AI will make rational decisions instead of trying to be smart. All of this doesn't really bug me, but what does is, they always build in the middle of my civilization, and i only find out about it when i explore that road that leads down to the AI's size 15 city. Because of this my cities cant grow, and if i take it over, my cities still can't grow. So i do the most logical thing, ask them to withdraw their troops (city) from my country, and they say that they don't have any troops in my territory. , it really gets on my nervs, then i have to start another game after that happend, .

2. The Multiplayer
When playing multiplayer, my friends always start in the best possie, with the best resources & two settlers, while i only get one. Even though i still beat them, the thing that gets on my nervs is the diplomacy, again. The computer speaks for the other player instead of him having his say. .

3. The Go-To Command
When using caravans or other units the go-to command always backfires and they move in the opposite dirrection .

4. The Advisors
The movie adviser clips are hopeless, they seriously don't give any decent advise, i seriously don't understand how Microprose made such a bad mistake. I turn the advisors off now, because even though the clips are cool, the advise is very dull.

5. The Pop-Ups
This is the worst part, in the modern age, every time the turn ends, my next trun takes about 10 minutes (8 minutes pressing enter, 2 minutes playing). Every single time something happens, if its minor or not, it comes with its pop-up message, even every time you build a none militrary unit it comes. This is a major crises, many times i have had to push alt+ctrl+delete, to exit the program.

If Firaxis doesn't make Civ 3 a great game, then at least they will make a good game and get rid of the stuff i just meantioned.

	14-07-2001 21:43									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Whoa... HATE CivII? Can we even say that here?

Well, I have to agree that the AI is terrible, but from what you're describing, the strategy it's using (inflitrate your territory and build cities in it) is pretty standard AI provocation. You've got to just keep ordering them out. Better still, kill 'em. You can't order a city out of your territory, but then, when the AI builds a city close to my territory I consider it a gift
Really, REALLY bad AI strategy abounds... like wasting dozens of units attacking a rifleman fortified on a mountain, or sending attackers one by one at an objective instead of en masse... I'm sure we all could name dozens of examples. AI military strategy usually seems to have the rather limited goal of being a nuisance, rather than trying to accomplish any long-term goals.

One other thing - if you don't like the popups I'm pretty sure you can turn them off, by editing the 'city report options' in the menu. I usually turn them off pre-revolution in order to avoid the endless 'civil disorder' messages you get in a large Civ.

STYOM

-- begin shameless ***kissing --

For the record, I LOVE CivII even with its myriad and infuriating faults

-- end shameless ***kissing --

	15-07-2001 08:20									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well the best Governments don't let me build military units. I have to play communism if i wont to do that.

	15-07-2001 10:26									#4
	Not that bad really Put an end to popups!

There were no previous games (or even now!) that offered you the chance to recreate an epoch of history and play it out in a scenario...
But, whilst playtesting the new Age of Osman* scenario I got this error message during the first turn and could not continue CivII itself...
What do you think is going on?
*About the rise of the Ottoman empire.

Attachment: error.jpg
This has been downloaded 160 time(s).

	15-07-2001 16:09									#5
	Re: Top 5 reasons why I HATE Civ 2 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Alex 14 2. The Multiplayer When playing multiplayer, my friends always start in the best possie, with the best resources & two settlers, while i only get one. Even though i still beat them, the thing that gets on my nervs is the diplomacy, again. The computer speaks for the other player instead of him having his say. .

Sounds like you playing in Hotseat mode .. tel your friends to get their own compters and play via Internet .. much better to negotiate with humans than stupid computer..

quote: 3. The Go-To Command When using caravans or other units the go-to command always backfires and they move in the opposite dirrection .

this occurs because the computer trys to send the units in the straightest path to destination, but it doesnt like crossing the 0,0 mark so will usually go the long way round, and the computer doesnt often stick to the nice roads you built if they dint go direct to the location, they will leave roads and go via mountains sometimes, very stupid ...

quote: 4. The Advisors The movie adviser clips are hopeless, they seriously don't give any decent advise, i seriously don't understand how Microprose made such a bad mistake. I turn the advisors off now, because even though the clips are cool, the advise is very dull.

most of their advise relates to sid s desire to see you build the basic city improvements, like city walls, markets, librarys etc. it doesnt tell you to keep building settler for ics style or even build lots of caravans for the big trade strategy..

quote: 5. The Pop-Ups This is the worst part, in the modern age, every time the turn ends, my next trun takes about 10 minutes (8 minutes pressing enter, 2 minutes playing). Every single time something happens, if its minor or not, it comes with its pop-up message, even every time you build a none militrary unit it comes. This is a major crises, many times i have had to push alt+ctrl+delete, to exit the program.

Yes all these can be turned off, the units being built ones, (including nonmilitary), city improvments, city starvation crisus etc

	15-07-2001 19:43									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

AI is the only thing that really gets on my nervs.

And that message which Massis attached makes me want to strangle my little brother (especially when I haven't saved the game for a very long time).

	15-07-2001 20:00									#7
	Re: Top 5 reasons why I HATE Civ 2 Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Alex 14 2. The Multiplayer When playing multiplayer, my friends always start in the best possie, with the best resources & two settlers, while i only get one. Even though i still beat them, the thing that gets on my nervs is the diplomacy, again. The computer speaks for the other player instead of him having his say. .

Sounds like you playing in Hotseat mode .. tel your friends to get their own compters and play via Internet .. much better to negotiate with humans than stupid computer..

quote: 3. The Go-To Command When using caravans or other units the go-to command always backfires and they move in the opposite dirrection .

this occurs because the computer trys to send the units in the straightest path to destination, but it doesnt like crossing the 0,0 mark so will usually go the long way round, and the computer doesnt often stick to the nice roads you built if they dint go direct to the location, they will leave roads and go via mountains sometimes, very stupid ...

quote: 4. The Advisors The movie adviser clips are hopeless, they seriously don't give any decent advise, i seriously don't understand how Microprose made such a bad mistake. I turn the advisors off now, because even though the clips are cool, the advise is very dull.

most of their advise relates to sid s desire to see you build the basic city improvements, like city walls, markets, librarys etc. it doesnt tell you to keep building settler for ics style or even build lots of caravans for the big trade strategy..

quote: 5. The Pop-Ups This is the worst part, in the modern age, every time the turn ends, my next trun takes about 10 minutes (8 minutes pressing enter, 2 minutes playing). Every single time something happens, if its minor or not, it comes with its pop-up message, even every time you build a none militrary unit it comes. This is a major crises, many times i have had to push alt+ctrl+delete, to exit the program.

Yes all these can be turned off, the units being built ones, (including nonmilitary), city improvments, city starvation crisus etc

	15-07-2001 20:20									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

AI is the only thing that really gets on my nervs.

And that message which Massis attached makes me want to strangle my little brother (especially when I haven't saved the game for a very long time).

	15-07-2001 21:32									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

what did your brother do to cause that ?

	15-07-2001 22:29									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

*takes Alex 14 and burns him at the stake for heresy*

Need I say more?

	15-07-2001 23:10									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

As Ras said, some of the things you mentioned are easily fixable. There are problems with civ (and for that matter every game), but I wouldn't say that should cause you to hate the game. It's original, interesting, and most important of all, fun.

I think you should rethink your decision, civ is one of the best games of all time

	15-07-2001 23:35									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

shucks some one who agrees with me, i thought i was jsut a dirty rotten spammer !!!!

	16-07-2001 01:49									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin shucks some one who agrees with me, i thought i was jsut a dirty rotten spammer !!!!

You are Raz, among the worst I ever saw, but who cares? I sure don't.

The AI's lack of strategy is it's main flaw, mindlessly attacking postions it can't take, and building cities in poor locations, based on mathmatical grid co-ordinates, instead of with an eye to specials and growth.

I could go on and on, but everyone has heard it before.

	16-07-2001 03:35									#14
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by El Awrence *takes Alex 14 and burns him at the stake for heresy* Need I say more?

I like civ 2, i just don't like the features.

	16-07-2001 03:41									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Sounds like you playing in Hotseat mode .. tel your friends to get their own compters and play via Internet .. much better to negotiate with humans than stupid computer..

Only one of my friends has civ 2 ( ), and he doesn't have internet.

quote: Yes all these can be turned off, the units being built ones, (including nonmilitary), city improvments, city starvation crisus etc

It's not like i don't want to see whats happening in the game, i just don't want it to pop up in my face! Take Civ 3 for instance, it looks like most of the stuff that was in the pop ups, will be displayed on the screen.

	16-07-2001 14:39									#16
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 You are Raz, among the worst I ever saw, but who cares? I sure don't.

well i think winston actually has a problem with it...

but seriously the stupid AI is the reason so many have turned to MP , only to find the game limited by the fact that MP was an addon not a fundamental design. there are so many "loopholes"
to exploit in MP due to this, see mings "Cheats and Bugs" thread over at Civ3 Ideas for Firaxis for more details

	16-07-2001 15:19									#17
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

My brother is a very annoying person who likes to mess up my games and gets on my nervs (usually when I'm playing games like Civ2).

	16-07-2001 20:14									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hey I love Civ II too.

Yeah the AI is frustrating but the thing that REALLY annoys me is #5, the pop-up.

Ok, you can turn off the pop-up to let you know when military and non-military units are built. And you can turn off the WLTKD pop-up and the famine pop-up and the population unrest pop-up. Probably others too. But...

You can't turn off the city improvement pop-up, and even if you can (I say this only because I can't check right now - wrong computer), you wouldn't because not only is that bad city management, you would eventually get another pop-up that says that the city is building something it has already built.

The real problem arises towards the latter stages of the game when I have between 150 - 250 cities all over the map. Alex 14 is right, it really takes me at least 10 minutes of hitting enter before I have access to the control panel. And I use a predesigned "autobuild" file to direct the building so that I only have to click "continue". Otherwise, it would take hours to go through each turn.

The frustrating thing with this is that you can't save, load or exit the game during this process. Imagine if you do something wrong by mistake. On my computer (laptop), it's oh-so easy to mistakenly hit alt-h (go home) instead of alt-j (move left). Imagine a scenario where this was my last move of the turn in which I wanted to attack something but instead sent the unit home by mistake. I then have to wait 10-60 minutes continuously clicking return before I can reload the game.

Plus there's no way to save and exit if you suddenly find yourself in need elsewhere. "Hurry up! We're late for the dinner party" "Sorry, you'll have to wait an hour before I can save my game...".

If Civ III addresses this issue, then the game will be perfect (almost - see AI comments above and below). I suggest an easy fix, if you save during the process, it's automatically saved right before your last move.