16-07-2001 05:02									#1
	I need some strat help... Support Apolyton

I am not new to Civ type games...I have played Civ1 Civ2 CTP and I could beat all of them on the hardest level no prob...I always made great cities that produced tons, I got CTP2 2 days ago and there were some different things brought into play...I do pretty good but what is killing me is my science...

I know you guys are going to say...well build the science improvements and that stuff...but in the earlier stages...I can't seem to get my science output out fast enough...I just started a Hard game, yeup not even on the impossible level and the Romans started charging at me with Calvary when all I had to defend were a couple pikemen and a bunch of hoplites...

I checked to see how much more advanced they were and well they had around 12 more advances than me....and the rest of the world was doing about the same...I am getting a new advance about every 17-24 turns...doesn't that sound a bit long to you guys??? What am I doing wrong??? do I need alot of cities?? I had about 8 cities at about the time that the Romans had 12 more advances and they looked like they had 12 cities...any help would be greatly apretiated

	16-07-2001 06:59									#2
	Got spare money?

If I remember right you don't want to build the science improvements too early because of their maintence fees, but you do want to build the tile improvements like the trading post, mall, etc. This gives you more money towards science.

	16-07-2001 13:22									#3
	Re: I need some strat help... Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: and the Romans started charging at me with Calvary when all I had to defend were a couple pikemen and a bunch of hoplites...

The Romans were charging at you? You are luckier than most of us then. The AI is just too damn passive.

Oh yeah, build the terrain improvements, and use scientists. This is how the AI does so well, it is set under some strategies to use up to 25% of its pop as specialists, and 50% of them on science. In a large city, that is quite a lot of science.

	16-07-2001 14:35									#4
	Re: Re: I need some strat help... Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat The Romans were charging at you? You are luckier than most of us then. The AI is just too damn passive.

Yeah they did...I started a new game today and the mexicans kept pirating my freakin' trade routes...well I kept telling them to stop and nothing seemed to work so I declared war like any one probably would... well within 5 turns I had 7 Ship-of-the-Lines coming at me and 5 Iron Clads against my 5 Ship-of-the-Lines and still researching for Iron clads...I also took out 3 or their Ship-of-the-Lines that were pirating me....I don't know how I will get out of this mess but I will...I am usually good at that...but the diplomacy sucks in this game...I thought it would be better than CTP...everyone is always mad at you for nothing...whats up with that??? I never backstab or do anything to them (if I am behind...If I'm not lol its a whole other story ) and they get mad...I usually have alot of gold and I give it to them hoping to make them happy but it doesn't....how do you make them happy?? is it possible lol??? man I should get in on some Multi Player games...humans are probably more fun to play with...

back on the subject
I tried the tile improvements and that cut my research time by aobut 1/3 or so which is a good improvement now I am going to try the speacialists now...how many should I put as scientists??? with out making my cities to ineffective?

	16-07-2001 14:43									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Try about 25% of the population, certainly no more than that, and less if you use entertainers or laborers

	16-07-2001 16:42									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Another possibility would to max the sliders for rations, payments and workdays. It is OK if the avarage happiness level is by 73. I admit this method is a little bit unfair, because the AI isn't able to do this therefore Wes raised the penalties for this in the MedPack to protect the AI and to make it harder for the player.

-Martin

	17-07-2001 01:31									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by TheManiac the Romans started charging at me with Calvary when all I had to defend were a couple pikemen and a bunch of hoplites

I have had this happen to me before, once I was playing on medium and I had a city with 3 Units in it and no catapult, and the portuguese attacked me and took the city, it seem the ai only attacks when it is assured a victory.
You should also build more cities and add specialist.

	17-07-2001 03:20									#8
	Re: Re: Re: I need some strat help... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by TheManiac I started a new game today and the mexicans kept pirating my freakin' trade routes...well I kept telling them to stop and nothing seemed to work so I declared war like any one probably would... well within 5 turns I had 7 Ship-of-the-Lines coming at me and 5 Iron Clads against my 5 Ship-of-the-Lines and still researching for Iron clads...

I wish I had big naval battles like that in my games.............

	27-07-2001 02:18									#9
	Using Improvements Get a bigger avatar today!

TheManiac,

You need to look at how much gold your cities produce and use your improvements to maximize it.

I use multiple Port improvements at every city as poosible: 15 pts per tile boost to commerce for a beach tile is the best bang for the PW buck. Use Trading Posts on forest tiles to get more commerce from them too.

Another clue is to watch what your most successful opponent is doing too.

Usually I don't have to add any specialists until I start to have pollution problems and need to reduce the cities output.

Once you get a feel for the tile improvements, their cavalry will be running onto your tanks and artillery.

Good hunting.

	27-07-2001 05:36									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have found i get the best results is by having a couple specialized cities for science. There are a couple things to look for in a city that you want to specialize.

1. It needs good science terrain. By this either a lot of beach squares, usually atleast 15 if that is not possible the largest number you got will work. Or, a lot of forest squares. and i mean build your city in the middle of a forest. These are allmost if not better than beach squares because they give a higher max with minimalls. Also a river is great. A river beach is some of the best terrain in the game. A forest with a river flowing into the coast is the ideal city local.

2. You need good growth and production in these cities. Growth to have a big city to allow maximum gathering effeciancy and production so you can get all of those good wonders that boost science.

3. Race to optics. This wonder is great. Built in you specialist city above i have been able to get a couple thousand science from this one city not to long after this structure is built.

4. Build all available science improvements. Thier not that great but 10% of 1000 is 100 extra. so.....its better than nothing.

5. lower your wages to boost science.

This alone should give you an advance about every turn or two until fairly late in the game.

If all else fails use spies like crazy, or make allies with a science pact.

other things that might help on a national level. Aristotle(every 20% helps) build ports in all coastal locations. a few ports can double science in a city easy.

	27-07-2001 13:23									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by me_irate make allies with a science pact.

Don't!

At least not in the original game.

When I was playing the original game (before I got MedMod2 ) I once made a science pact with the least developed hillbilly AI civ that was in the game.

Their science cought up really fast and when they outran me I realized that they got one advancement per turn (in the genetic age!).

In one of the threads I read that this is a bug that couldn't be fixed with the mods. So some of the mods just disabled the science pact.

	31-07-2001 03:05									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Only make science pacts on the hardest difficulty level, and with people more advanced than you. After you buy several techs from them, they will give them to you for free. This way you and them can become the most advanced. After you eliminate all others brake pact and destroy them.

	31-07-2001 16:46									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well I haven't modified my original game yet but I do have it patched.

I've made a science pact with Israel which is 3 techs ahead of me. They sold me two techs and after that whenever they get a tech I don't have I ask and they give it to me for free. I think something that helps is if you declare war on a country your science partner is at war with. In my game the Nicaraguans, who are the strongest by the way, are at war with Israel and I declared war on Nicaragua. Israel's trust and regard are both maxed out in my favor. Both of us however are behind compared to Nicaragua and 2 other countries but the war has been going nicely as I have captured two cities so far while pillaging every thing in site.