16-07-2001 14:03									#1
	A question to all the crazy testers Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hello to you all the statisticians of the Gods. I was asking myself a few questions about hut tippings :
1) Does the nature of the civ (militarstic / neutral / civilized) has an effect on the results of an hut ?
2) Does the terrain has en effect. I know that only on praire or plains you can get an advanced tribe (AT), but are you luckier to find a none settler (NS) on a forest than a desert for example ?
3) Does the proximiy of a town affect the probability of finding an AT or a NS ? It seems to me that it does, but I am not sure.
4) No Barbarians appear until the 1st city is founded, for sure, but I think there is never more than 1 at the time until the 1st 50 turns (1500 bc in deity), can anybody confirm.
All this would be for MGE, thanks in advance.

	16-07-2001 17:57									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

1) No - this was tested when compiling "A is for Alphabet"
2) Nomads can emerge from any terrain that is not Grassland or Plains. I think terrain may have an influence over other hut outcomes but as yet I can't prove it!
3) The proximity of a city does have an effect as no barbs appear from a hut within city limits or one square beyond. Likewise, no Advanced Tribes or Non Settlers from these huts either.
4) There is period in the game - around 1500BC when you can either get a single barb or up to eight.
5) I am not a crazy tester A humble student of the game!
6) How are you progressing with that Giga Succession Game you were bumping a couple of months ago?

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SG(2)

	16-07-2001 22:54									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Nomads can also appear from huts on grassland and plains terrain, although it is quite rare (perhaps 1 in 100 advanced tribes on grass/plains, perhaps even less). I've only had it happen on 2x2x test games (me v 1 ai), and it's only happened a few times before. Maybe the settings I used somehow affect it. Never seen it on 1x1x.

	17-07-2001 04:36									#4
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quote: Originally posted by DrFell Nomads can also appear from huts on grassland and plains terrain, although it is quite rare (perhaps 1 in 100 advanced tribes on grass/plains, perhaps even less). I've only had it happen on 2x2x test games (me v 1 ai), and it's only happened a few times before. Maybe the settings I used somehow affect it. Never seen it on 1x1x.

I have never played 2x2x, or tested under those conditions, so I cannot confirm or dispute your results.

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SG(2)

	17-07-2001 07:57									#5
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I often like to play 2x2x against the AI to see how fast i can grow on normal duel settings, to improve my mp play. I've played quite a few of these games and in each one got a ton of huts and almost always a large number of tribes/settlers. I remeber I got one on plains terrain at least once, and I've had one on grassland. I couldn't belive it when I saw it, as I didn't think nomads could appear on this kind of terrain. Unfortunately I didn't keep a save after I got the settlers.

	18-07-2001 21:35									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits 1) No - this was tested when compiling "A is for Alphabet" 2) Nomads can emerge from any terrain that is not Grassland or Plains. I think terrain may have an influence over other hut outcomes but as yet I can't prove it! 3) The proximity of a city does have an effect as no barbs appear from a hut within city limits or one square beyond. Likewise, no Advanced Tribes or Non Settlers from these huts either. 4) There is period in the game - around 1500BC when you can either get a single barb or up to eight. 5) I am not a crazy tester A humble student of the game! 6) How are you progressing with that Giga Succession Game you were bumping a couple of months ago? ------------------ SG(2)

Thanks Scouse Gits
1) if you say so, I trust you.
2) still an open question then, I believe mountains to be the poorest in nomads, but can’t prove it.
3) Yes, that I knew and I think the more towns you have, the more chances that you can get AT or NS. Something else to prove.
4) Yes. we agree.
5) Well, put it the way you like most ! You’re one of the best in this forum.
6) I’m keeping the pace of this succession game ...
7) A new question : does anyone has the impression that they are trends in hut. I mean if you get money, next time you probably get money too, and if you get barbarians, next time ...

	18-07-2001 22:37									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes, some testers have seen trends, altho they did not come up with anything definitive about why. Because game situations play into the odds (techs discovered, terrain, presence of a nomad, etc), it could still very well be only chance that a tester sees as a trend.

Assuming randomness (altho some suggest a link to the computer's clock...) and only five possible outcomes (nothing, barbarians, gold, tech, nomad/tribe), a string of like goodies is almost to be expected. The jury is out on this one, as you can see. Only the nomad limits seem to defy randomness, be it real or computer generated.

	20-07-2001 15:25									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

In my experience, N-Settlers are most likely to appear in forests, and to a lesser extent on hills and glaciers. Mountains usually give either tech or barbs. Jungles are good for tech, too, while grassland (apart from advanced tribes) and tundra (but also forests) are more likely to produce units. Swamps and deserts seem to have a tendency towards barbs. Plains are kinda neutral, as is money. It's been ages since the last time I found weeds, but it can happen.
I haven't really run tests though.

In addition, the outcome of hut tipping is auto-correlated to the result from the last hut you tipped. Hence the relatively high likelihood of strings of tech OR money OR barbs etc. So if you want N-Settlers, do that forested hut first, and you're more likely to find them elsewhere, too (provided you have settled with the first one, if it's on the same continent).

	20-07-2001 18:10									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The nothing/weeds result only applies if the level of Barb activity is set below Raging Hordes.

I have changed my mind about Nomads. I was convinced it was only one per continent if other Non-Settlers were active. Recently I have gained subsequent nomads when one was already present. It was a large world with a massive continent. My feeling is that other settlers are possible if the hut is nearer to an AI capital than your own - provided the AI capital is at least 30 tiles away. This is untested speculation.

Forests are productive for nomads, especially if the hut is tipped before research is entered. For example: You found both your initial cities in the same turn - then pop the forest hut during the same year. The same works well for Advanced Tribes on Grassland/Plains squares.

There is also a very high incidence of Advanced Tribes from the first grassland/plains hut on a different continent.

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SG(2)

	20-07-2001 21:26									#10
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Regarding Advanced Tribes and terrain, I had a recent (i.e. this week) game on the "Europe" map where I played ICS and tipped a *lot* of huts. I went through a period early on where I found about 8 Advanced Tribes, sometimes back to back (as per Ribannah's note). Most of these tribes were on grassland/river terrain. (v2.42)

	21-07-2001 02:24									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Julius Brenzaida I believe mountains to be the poorest in nomads, but can’t prove it.

There are quite few nomads in Switzerland though.
(but one good example is worth nothing, compared with thorough testing)


(this guy is La Fayette, looking at the Eigerwand)