16-07-2001 20:07									#1
	The senate will be our downfall! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Dear people of reason,

I have been good to my people! I have given them all the luxuries to make them happy. They live in a Democracy, protected, secure and safe on an island.

I have worked hard to keep our military advances ahead of the world. I have strategically placed airports and prepared a great air force for air superiority. And now, NOW is the time to attack!

But the senate refuses to listen to reason! I must get around this red-tape madness. They have no vision. They don't understand! Our civilization has not researched Communism but I wonder if now is the time to do so.

What is the best way to wage war against a civilization with whom we have an allegiance? Research Communism then change? Or is there a better way?

Thanks.

	16-07-2001 20:21									#2
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Keep Democracy and do two things.

First, send two diplomats or spies into their territory and plant them next to the capital city - in the same square so that they can't be diplomatically expelled.

Then, at least once a turn but more if allowed, ask the allied civ for money, tech or some other thing. And definitely deny any request of their. Soon they will cancel the alliance. And very soon after this, they will attack your diplomats/spies and, presto, you'll be at war.

This has never failed me.

	16-07-2001 20:34									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

If I were you, I'd switch to fundy, demand tribute, go to war, and when it's over - return to democracy.

The senate IIRC doesn't allow demanding tribute, breaking of treaties or the turning down of unreasonable ones.

And under democracy, your government will collapse right when you need it most. Pathetic

	17-07-2001 00:13									#4
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well done for running a democracy
i cant

	17-07-2001 00:36									#5
	Re: The senate will be our downfall! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by vbmark What is the best way to wage war against a civilization with whom we have an allegiance? Research Communism then change? Or is there a better way? Thanks.

The best way? Build the SoL, revolt, war, and re-democracize.
The next best way? Revolt, war, and re-democracize. BTW. Make sure you revolt the year before an Oedo year.

	17-07-2001 01:12									#6
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Oedo year means?

(like, ever 4th year etc)

	17-07-2001 01:22									#7
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"Oedo years" were one of the great discoveries of the ages. They are explained in the Great Library under "Revolution Without Anarchy - the "oedo years". This can be found at:

oedo years

In a nutshell, at Deity level the years for revolution follow a set pattern. A huge advantage when you know the pattern.

	17-07-2001 06:24									#8
	Support Apolyton

Well, I think what I'll do is make some spys and see if I can send them in to the city to do some dirty work.

I guess if they get caught and war breaks out then I've accomplished my task. If they don't get caught then at least I've done some damage.

Either way it's a win/win--right?

Hopefully I'll be able to try this in the next few days.

	17-07-2001 14:19									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by kcbob "Oedo years" were one of the great discoveries of the ages. They are explained in the Great Library under "Revolution Without Anarchy - the "oedo years". This can be found at: oedo years In a nutshell, at Deity level the years for revolution follow a set pattern. A huge advantage when you know the pattern.

one thing that wasnt made very clear at that thread was is the oppurtunity to get anarchy free changes only avaialble if you discover the tech for the new government in that particular year.. looks like every 200 years... aslso is it only availabe at deity level ....

	17-07-2001 15:50									#10
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quote: Originally posted by vbmark Well, I think what I'll do is make some spys and see if I can send them in to the city to do some dirty work.

Surprised to hear that you have espionage but not communism. If you get caught a democracy will probably collapse anyway, so you may as well revolt ready for the Oedo year, cancel aliance, send in all the troops, and then change back to democracy next turn (if commie still isn't available).

	17-07-2001 17:10									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I've always had great success waging war with a democracy. One can easily goad the AI into declaring war with your civ and then you can incite a revolt without having to double the cost. This is one of my ways to pick up military units without having to build them. For the cost of one diplomat/spy and usually a couple hundred gold, I can "acquire" a city usually packed with elephants, legions and, during latter stages, naval units (which I personally would never build - too costly and too easily destroyed when attacking cities with coastal fortresses).

Speaking of which, the city icon gets a wall around it when it has walls, is there any indication that a city has a coastal fortress or a SAM battery. If not, then this is an unfair advantage that land based units get and should be addressed in Civ III (after the other ten thousand issues get addressed maybe).

	17-07-2001 17:23									#12
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good point fittstim perhpaps you should raise this at Civ 3 suggestions forum !!!

	18-07-2001 02:56									#13
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he has also hit the best stragegy. Turn fundie for a few turns and build a load of spies, with thwe fat amounts of cash you now have, just by the cities with walls and artilerry the ones without :P:P