17-07-2001 04:02									#1
	Modern day scenario Got spare money?

A while back, not long after CTP2 came out I started a modern world scenario. Got it looking fairly nice, then with the whole "we aren't supporting this product fiasco" I became disgusted and have moved on to other things.

Since then I have come back to the scenario several times, playing different countries, modifing things here and there to make it run a little smoother.

Here's what I have in the scenario so far:
-Complete acurate model of the world
-16 civ's, some are large nations such as US or china, others are conglomerates of several smaller nations.
-technologies added for each nation
-rougly 250 or so cities in the game
-buildings and unit garrissons added for all cities
-diplomatic treaties and embassies have been added
-trust and attittudes have been set, but need MAJOR tweaking
-unit and building costs have both been increased significantly to reflect that this game advances at a much slower pace than normal
-spy networks for appropriate networks have been added
-technology costs have also similarly been increased
-barbarian cities have been added in areas of the world affected by unrest, e.g. civil war in sri lanka, chechnya, columbia, parts of africa
-most all nations have some sort of immediate threat to deal with. Since the scenario starts in Jan 2000, Japan is very technologically advanced, but economically they are suffering from a depression, I deleted all marketplaces, banks, etc to reflect this, so they are losing a large amount of cash each turn and if the economic system isn't reformed(read: build more banks) they'll go bankrupt. Other problems inclue famine, corruption, serious pollution, and threat of nuclear warfare...
-one slic coded event has been added just to see if it worked. If you play the indians and approach sri lanka a message box pops up saying yada-yada civil war. Eventually I wanted to add events so if they attacked sri lanka their world opinion would go down. As an alternative, if they sent a diplomat to the city they would have an option of buying sri lanka into the indian empire for some gold, units, or something else. There are lots of other ideas I have that could be done here.

To be completed:
-More slic-coded events!!!
-balancing of unit/building/technology costs
-city placement in some nations isn't quite right, or city names are entirely wrong
-balancing of military powers
-overhaul of diplomacy model. Nations are too quick to declare war on each other and things degenerate into WWIII very quickly, while its fun, I would prefer a more diplomatic approach to things, but a WWIII would be fine if it fit into some sort of realistic context
-Right now on about the 2nd, maybe 3rd turn, india and the muslim nations(read: pakistan, iraq, iran) nuke each other to death, releasing global pollution. This is a mixed blessing. While they both have nukes, and they both hate each other, I don't want them nuking each other and creating a global mess. Solutions: slic coded events seem to be the way out here. Make an event so that the player civ will be given an option, they can get india and the muslims to disarm their nuclear weapons by offering money, units, and technologies. If the player does this then neither the indians nor muslims will be able to build nukes, and all existing ones will be destroyed. This could also work with other nations as well.
-Unit balancing issues: As of right now the cost of building, and maintaining a sizable army is quite a lot. If you are under a democracy, just to have 1 marine garrisoned in each of your cities takes about 15% of your production. I would like to upgrade fascism so it could be the military equivilant to corporate republics economy/technology, maybe give them a larger break for military upkeep.
-spies are way way way to easy to be abused in this scenario. It takes normally 20-30 turns to research a technology, more if you are a backwards nation. I would like to change the success rate of spy missions, but haven't found where to do that, the only other option is to increase their cost by a lot, but I don't want to do that.
-technologies are very hard to research. To make some of the smaller 3rd world countries more competitive I wanted to make it so if X countries had a certain advance, researching that advance would be %Y easier. This alone would *almost* balance the game to where I want it.

Ok, so by now you are wondering wheres the point in all this aren't you? Well email me at thebiglewbowski@aol.com and I'll send you a copy of what I have so far. If you would like to work on it, change things around, go for it. If you know slic and want to make this scenario go from kinda-cool to spectacular gimme an email and I'll give you some ideas.

Dale- I'm currently running diplomod 1.2, or something very old like that, can you give me a rundown of all the features in the latest version, and also if its appropriate for my scenario? Also if you would be willing to change some things within diplomod specificly for me that would be great.

	17-07-2001 12:50									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Kormer:
Diplomod is up to V3.6 now. The model I've come up with is a LOT more diplomatic than V1.2 was. The AI's will range from happy to angry with each other. As to what it does, straight from the readme:

quote: - AI will not by default refuse another AI's proposal. - AI has higher priorities for making proposals. This causes the AI to make more proposals. - AI's will generate either positive or negative regard for each other. - AI/Human interaction will be more agressive/demanding. - Enabled trade and military pacts for peace treaty. I believe this to be more historically accurate. - On average, an AI will make 16 considerations for proposals every turn for every civ. - AI has 6 different AI-Human and AI-AI diplomatic states being friendly, neutral and provoking. - AI will randomly switch its diplomatic stance with other civs between friendly, neutral and provoking. - AI's will now build embassies with other AI civs and embassies closed by war are re-opened after the war. - AI's will now pullout non-civilian troops from land when withdraw troops agreement is in place. - AI's will swap maps rarely in the beginning with increasing frequency till normal 1% chance. - AI's will almost snub you completely if at war with you. - Disabled Research Pact to avoid blatent Activision bug. - This model will come into affect after the HasContact flag is enabled. - Diplomatic photos of leaders viewable when doing diplomacy. (See Below to enable)

Download from http://www.mydocsonline.com
Username: hexagonia
Password: hextapul
Go to the Dale's MODS folder.

If you need some things changed, let me know.

	17-07-2001 15:34									#3
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Hi Kormer!

It sounds really good.

To change the success rates of spies, find these lines in units.txt:

code:

StealTechnology {
      RandomChance 0.35
      SpecificChance 0.25
      DeathChance 0.5
      Sound SOUND_ID_STEAL_TECHNOLOGY_SP
      Effect SPECEFFECT_STEAL_TECHNOLOGY
   }

Bump the chances down and the death chance up.

BTW, how did you get 16 civilizations into a scenario? I seem to remeber there was lots of talk that it wasn't possible, or it was but only two people knew how to do it, or whatever...

Glad to see you back and continuing the scenario.

	17-07-2001 18:04									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: BTW, how did you get 16 civilizations into a scenario? I seem to remeber there was lots of talk that it wasn't possible, or it was but only two people knew how to do it, or whatever...

Ben on the Nation page of the Cheat Editor you find a four buttons that allows you to put the start locations of the players on a map, if you use the left button complete game you have to put settlers on the map instead of start locations. And here you can put settlers of more than 8 nations on the map. So far as I know it is the only way to create a scenario with more than 8 civs.

-Martin

	17-07-2001 20:10									#5
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Dale-
I love the idea about diplomatic stances, thats exactly what I need for my scenario. Is it possible to pre-set stances at the beginning of a scenario at all? For example I can make US-Canada friendly, but US-China provoking. I would like to see these stances change over time, but not completely randomly, I'll have to look at the chances and play with them though. Also whats the deal with a research pact bug?

Immortal Wombat-
Thanks for the advice, just changed that so if you can't easily have all techs with a few quick and cheap spies. Now you would need to build a lot of spies to steal a technology, and since each one lowers your regard when it caught, its a bit more challenging to go steal all of the US's techs if you are latin america.

Martin Gühmann-
To answer your question, you need to go into userprofile and the first option numplayers, change that to one more than however many players you want, max is 32 players I think, so 33. The problem I found is that turnlength is exponentially related to how many players are in a game. 16 isn't too bad, but 32 is horrendous unless you have a supercomputer.

I hope you guys don't mind, I just upped the scenario to the account on mydocsonline so you all can download it. It doesn't hvae the newest diplomod features yet as I want to playtest them first and make sure theres no bugs I don't know about. I'll play around with the diplomod and maybe release an updated version in a few days.

	17-07-2001 21:03									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Martin Gühmann- To answer your question, you need to go into userprofile and the first option numplayers, change that to one more than however many players you want, max is 32 players I think, so 33. The problem I found is that turnlength is exponentially related to how many players are in a game. 16 isn't too bad, but 32 is horrendous unless you have a supercomputer.

Did I ask a question? I supposed Ben allready know how to start a game on a random map with more than 8 players. So I only told I to save a scenario that you can it play with more than 8 civs. To put the settler for each nation on the map is the only way putting start locations on the map won't work also you put start locations for more than 8 players on the map.

BTW, I should try it with 32 civs and the really gigantic map of the Apolyton Pack. I hope my new comp will do that.

-Martin

	17-07-2001 22:10									#7
	Support Apolyton

Thanks Martin, I thought it must be something like that, but I woudn't have figured out the settler thing.

	17-07-2001 23:07									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Dale, just loaded diplomod 3.6 to my scenario and had about 100 errors on the first turn, but then no problems after that. One of the problems was with your message box popping up, so I disabled that. I'm still getting errors related to the random number generator, I wasn't sure how to fix that one though.
Also I saw you want to be a game programmer someday, a couple friends of mine are talking about starting our own developers firm. Someones writing the design docs for our first game already, we're planning a civ type game focused solely around WWII. This wouldn't start for at least a year or so, but I'll save your email if you are interested.

	17-07-2001 21:22									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Also whats the deal with a research pact bug?

Apparently there was some discussion of this ages ago, but I haven't seen it and don't know what the bug is. I think that if you get a research pact it's not like you swap advances with your partner but rather something like you 'share research costs'. I only noticed this recently when I managed to get a research pact with a civ that was roughly my equal: the turns to next advance figure, instead of decreasing by one per game year, was decreasing by two.

	18-07-2001 05:22									#10
	Put an end to popups!

Kormer:
Sounds good mate. I know VC++ but working my way through DirectX now. Not much time to do it though with work and everything else.

Keep me up to date on the group. dale.kent@alphawest6.com.au

	18-07-2001 19:13									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Dale could you d/l my scenario from the mydocsonline folder, install diplomod 3.6 and see whats the problem with the slic errors. I just played a regular game with it and it looks like just the thing I need. If I can get that done I'll release a 1.0 version and get it posted on apolyton's site. Also if you could figure a way to set each countries stance specificly let me know so I can change those to where they should be.

	18-09-2002 22:51									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by kormer Dale could you d/l my scenario from the mydocsonline folder, install diplomod 3.6 and see whats the problem with the slic errors. I just played a regular game with it and it looks like just the thing I need. If I can get that done I'll release a 1.0 version and get it posted on apolyton's site. Also if you could figure a way to set each countries stance specificly let me know so I can change those to where they should be.

Any progress Kormer?

-Martin

	25-09-2002 23:11									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Whats the latest, i look forward to seeing this scenario

how about a couple of screenies