20-07-2001 00:19									#1
	Granting conquests autonomy (provincial status) Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

A feature I find unrealistic is the way you capture cities and they INSTANTLY become assimilated into your culture (I capture Babylon and it's no different from Manchester, except for the location).

What if you could grant cities/regions autonomy (like my mates the Romans)!?!

An example of this would be - I capture Marseilles (as you do), grant it autonomy and it becomes part of the English province of France. The units are orange/blue striped and loyal to myself (of course). I am at will to levy taxes on this province and take direct control of units when it pleases me. It would have a de facto leader and there'd have to be diplomacy of sorts.

In certain circumstances the province could rebel and rejoin France (even a neighbouring country) or declare independance for itself. The causes of rebellion could be levying too much tax, becoming weak (losing a major battle or sliding down the power scale) or being bribed.

But whilst an English province, I can make any of the cities wholly English by simply moving troops in (a handy feature if you suspect something's in the offing). Anyway, just an idea.

	20-07-2001 00:23									#2
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whoah whoah whoah big boy.

quote: A feature I find unrealistic is the way you capture cities and they INSTANTLY become assimilated into your culture (I capture Babylon and it's no different from Manchester, except for the location).

read up on culture. if u take a babylonian city, and the city is a big, ancient babylonian city with a high culture rate, the city can revolt back to the original civ, or be really unhappy and hard to manage under your control.

every population point has a nationality. babylonian civilians arent the same as roman ones.

	20-07-2001 00:24									#3
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It's been stated that if you take another civ's city over, that has a large culture, you're subduing your self to a large chance of rebellion by that city. So that part of the game has been tweaked a bit to make it more realistiic and hopefully more fun.

	20-07-2001 00:33									#4
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Damn Uberkrux, you just barely beat me out on that post.

	20-07-2001 00:48									#5
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I can't think of any reasonably sized empire, ancient or modern, that didn't grant autonomy to certain provinces. It would be nice if this was reflected to a greater extent in the game.

The "city that revolts back to its motherland" feature is a cop-out!

	20-07-2001 02:06									#6
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But what would be the strategic use of granting autonomy?
I can suggest
1. it reduces the chances for conquered cities to revolt so much, though they still might want total independance one day.
2. reduces corruption alot, by having a central 'government' there, maybe you'd need another 'palace' here like a governers cityhall / provincial seat. This is a SERIOUS problem in conquering far off cities on large maps.

What i want to make in my game in the future IS whereby you can issue orders to your sub provinces or close allies/united federal states to 'take that mountain by Madrid' and they would go ahead and do it or 'give me 100 US dollars, not Reubles mind'
etc.
I did like Alpha Centauris system , where you could coordinate attacks on 1 city at a time with allies to an extent.

Be nice if there could be Resistance fighters involved, maybe they can hide out easily in cities that used to be theirs.

AdmiralPJ
of the ancient Pigfarming field

	20-07-2001 02:50									#7
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Right, and maybe they'll automatically kick your officials out and make you conquer all over again...

	20-07-2001 03:05									#8
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But what would be the strategic use of granting autonomy?

1. As you say, it would curtail unrest & corruption - you could expand faster as a result.
2. You would have a guaranteed trading partner.
3. The province will expand autonomously (new cities will be founded), adding to your treasury without effort on your part.

Only Gengis Khan would disapprove!

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ Be nice if there could be Resistance fighters involved, maybe they can hide out easily in cities that used to be theirs.

Resistance would add a nice touch (as long as there's some chance of detection).

	20-07-2001 03:46									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Recurve I can't think of any reasonably sized empire, ancient or modern, that didn't grant autonomy to certain provinces.

Which parts of the USA would you consider autonomous enough that, in Civ terms, they would not be under your control?

	20-07-2001 04:33									#10
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States have a decent amount of power, although in many cases the federal government demands they have certain laws and sometimes provides grants to states that do what the federal government likes. For example, states get money for having the mimumum drinking age be 21. But in Louisana's case, they see it is more profitable for them to have the drinking age be 18.

Anyway, it is the modern way of diplomacy not to conquer nations and declare them your province, but after invading them, installing a regime friendly to you, with a government that has little choice to do as you say.

	20-07-2001 07:54									#11
	Re: Granting conquests autonomy (provincial status) Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Recurve What if you could grant cities/regions autonomy (like my mates the Romans)!?!

I think this suggestion is beyond the scope of this game.

	20-07-2001 10:07									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold Which parts of the USA would you consider autonomous enough that, in Civ terms, they would not be under your control?

I can think of a few like Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and in the past Cuba and the Philipines. I know their others but its been a while since my last U.S. history class.

	20-07-2001 12:40									#13
	Re: Re: Granting conquests autonomy (provincial status) Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by joseph1944 I think this suggestion is beyond the scope of this game.

Not at all!

	20-07-2001 15:13									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Eternal Anyway, it is the modern way of diplomacy not to conquer nations and declare them your province, but after invading them, installing a regime friendly to you, with a government that has little choice to do as you say.

Exactly. After WW2, Europe was split up between the U.S./England and the Soviet Union and both sides set up satellite nations. I think it would be neat to incorporate into Civ 3, but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.

	20-07-2001 15:21									#15
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just copy the 7kingdoms the model...

	20-07-2001 15:46									#16
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quote: Originally posted by JellyDonut After WW2, Europe was split up between the U.S./England and the Soviet Union and both sides set up satellite nations. I think it would be neat to incorporate into Civ 3, but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.

The USSR annexation of Eastern Europe left them with countries that were (in Civ terms) completely absorbed and under their full control. Calling places like Poland puppet states would not alter the game mechanics of still retaining full control.

The Allied occupation of West Germany resulted in the return of the territory to its democratic government, which again is handled already in Civ terms - alliance of nations.

It seems to me like this whole concept can be handled just by giving a nation its soverignity back after conquest but having its initial diplomatic stance set to "friendly" to reflect the people in power being willing to trade and make alliances with you. That gets you the trading partner that expands automatically but is willing to obey most diplomatic requests without having to code a whole new approach.

	20-07-2001 16:04									#17
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quote: Originally posted by JellyDonut Exactly. After WW2, Europe was split up between the U.S./England and the Soviet Union and both sides set up satellite nations. I think it would be neat to incorporate into Civ 3, but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.

What?

Europe was certainly not split up after ww2! Perhaps if you call Berlin Europe you would be right.

I do not consider my country as a satellite nation!

The problem with Europe is that it hasn't been and will never be one whole.

	20-07-2001 17:06									#18
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quote: Originally posted by campmajor! Europe was certainly not split up after ww2!

The countries to the east of the "Iron Curtain" were definitely satellites of the USSR. Western Europe, including Holland remained independant (as before the war). But I do recall Holland was once a satellite of Spain! What a prospect.

	20-07-2001 17:38									#19
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Related to granting autonomy, I think it would be nice if the choice of government forms would be expanded. Not just between democracy or monarchy but also between unitary state (eg: France), federal state (US, Germany) or confederation. (CIS?)

The attraction of a the first would be a large control for you over all edges of your empire, the second would reduce corruption and the scope for rebellion and the third could be offered as an option for rebellious provinces, giving them more freedom while maintaining the empire, or as the advanced stage beyond an alliance.
However, I can’t think of many durable or effective confederations, it seems more to be a form of a provisional arrangement or a compromise between federation and maintaining two separate countries.
It would also be possible to organise an empire into provinces, which would simply be a compilation of cities with a governor.

Not that I believe there’s any chance this would be implemented of course , but it would be an interesting feature IMHO.