20-07-2001 13:08									#1
	Renaissance Age Problems Tired of ads?

The Renaissance age should be starting about 1550, In Civ 2, i usually find myself getting Medicine a very long time before that (before the dark age), this should be fixed.

	20-07-2001 15:39									#2
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What is the problem, they had also Medicine in ancient times. I donīt see the relation between Medicine and Renaissance...

	20-07-2001 15:52									#3
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What about the Romans? They already had Sanitation before 1 AD. So it is not unrealistic.

	20-07-2001 15:59									#4
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The Romans had aqueducts, baths and sewers to deliver fresh water, clean everyone and remove the waste products. The Muslim world was considerably more advanced in medicine than Europe. The Orient had (and still have) their own style of medicine which is quite different from the West.

The problem with advances like sanitation and medicine is that they never were "inventions" but more of a steady accumulation of knowledge. The Romans had the weath, engineering aptitude and cultural bias toward cleanliness that made it possible for them to be centuries ahead of their neighbours. In Civ games naturally we want to emulate them. With no 'rise and fall' mechanisms there is no way for "Rome" to forget this knowledge so that it can be rediscovered by future Italian states.

	20-07-2001 16:12									#5
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Even the old Egyptians had medical abilities...

	20-07-2001 20:49									#6
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Just about every historical culture in the world practiced medicine or healing arts in some form. Faith healing, herbal remedies, acupuncture, etc. pre-date by centuries western notions of "medicine".

	20-07-2001 20:55									#7
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"No rise and fall factor..."

What there needs to be is a corruption factor, where a powerful faction will go into a bread and circuses mode...and the city will crumble...

	20-07-2001 21:35									#8
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Having eras where you had to sell off city improvements because they were too expensive to maintain even though you understood the basic science might work. However in the current Civ model sanitation = more people = more food, trade and production. Most of the inventions are very positive so it wouldn't quite work unless the whole cost/benefit system was dramatically changed.

	20-07-2001 21:53									#9
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Well, just because it would have to be drastically changed doesn't mean it's impossible to. Obviously, it's a little late for Civ3, but it would put an interesting spin on things, as people tried to keep their empires "pure."

	21-07-2001 01:19									#10
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firaxis has already said that you must get nearly all of the techs in a given age to go into the next one.

	21-07-2001 03:00									#11
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quote: The Renaissance age should be starting about 1550, In Civ 2, i usually find myself getting Medicine a very long time before that (before the dark age), this should be fixed.

Why should it? Civ isn't you guilding a historical simulator. It's not watching a documentary about the rise and fall of civilizations. . if you're good enough to discover sanitation. . (or any other random advanced tech) early. . then more power to you. There's a whole challenge and strategy based on maximizing science to extremely early landings. .
Who's to say an upwardly mobile civilization in our OWN history couldn't have done that? It's not like it would have been impossible.

Forcing the game to follow the same path that our own history took doesn't sound like a fun game to me. .

	21-07-2001 14:01									#12
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro What is the problem, they had also Medicine in ancient times. I donīt see the relation between Medicine and Renaissance...

William Shakespear (Shakespear Theatre - Medicine).

	21-07-2001 15:54									#13
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Yeah, I know, but they could simply relate that wonder to another tech, Medicine itself is ok for me.

	22-07-2001 01:55									#14
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4000 bc: you look sick, eat this root
1700 ad: that herb is heathen, say this prayer
1900 ad: that prayer is supersticion, take this anti-biotic
2000 ad: that anti-biotic doesn't work anymore, eat this root.

	22-07-2001 03:39									#15
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX 4000 bc: you look sick, eat this root 1700 ad: that herb is heathen, say this prayer 1900 ad: that prayer is supersticion, take this anti-biotic 2000 ad: that anti-biotic doesn't work anymore, eat this root.

Very, very nice. Sadly becoming more and more true as well.

	22-07-2001 23:33									#16
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quote: Originally posted by campmajor! What about the Romans? They already had Sanitation before 1 AD. So it is not unrealistic.

To make it even more realistic about discovering Sanitation in 1AD... make the civ 'rediscover' it in 1500 on the EARTH map and then we can have a RENAISSANCE!

	22-07-2001 23:40									#17
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV Very, very nice. Sadly becoming more and more true as well.

Ah UberKrux stole that from Parade Magazine or somewhere else- it's all over the internet
... Appropriate however