20-07-2001 19:07									#1
	CivIII and the continuance of AC/X Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

When CivIII finally makes it's debut, I doubt that I will be playing much AC/X anymore afterwards. Of course, this all depends on the addictiveness and quality of CivIII. But to be honest, I just don't see how it won't surpass Civ, CivII and AC/X in many ways and levels; but then again, we all have been burned before by sequels and (damnit!!) prequels ::cough... Star Wars... cough::

So, I am enjoying these last pbems and SP games, and I am eagerly looking forward to.....

"A whole new world, a wonderous place, for you and me!"
-Alladin-

	20-07-2001 19:28									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yeah, civ3 does look pretty good. I'd be a shame if these forums died and everyone moved out, though.

Then again, I still play a little civ2, even with SMAC out, but I doubt civ3 won't be the final nail in the coffin for at least one of them.

*wonders if he should change his name*

	20-07-2001 20:27									#3
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Some of us are more into the SciFi theme. My son and I came to SMAC from Deadlock II. I have never played any Civ games.

	20-07-2001 21:02									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Same here...I saw an ad for SMAC in a Science mag, and have only played a bit of Civ2 at my friends house...I just think string disruptors are cooler then swords...

	20-07-2001 21:16									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Then there were the Mac users...Although there is a mac version of CIV III in the works, it will invariably be released 6-12 months after the PC version. But you're right, the SMAC forum will thin out considerably. Personally, I'm not sure what it is, but I enjoy SMAC 10 times more than CIV II. I'm sure I'll like CIV III, but unless they have crawlers, well, I'll be continuing with SMAC... I was just posting about this over on the creation threads somewhere because four or five of us are working hard at SMAC variants/mods right now. It's going to be very difficult to watch our creations come in like a lion only to go out quickly like a lamb. But at least we'll be here to test each other's games! I think, like D-Dad, there are those of us that might play SMAC even over CIV III. Only time will tell. Tokamak pointed out to me in an email that quite a few games have survived to 'permanent' status in the gaming world. They have core groups of fans that keep playing, keep modifying, continue supporting them. There is no way to make SMAC one of the 'classics' but it might just happen. I know I for one will play it alongside titles like 'Colonization', 'Chess', 'Solitaire', certain online MUDS, 'Angband', and others, even with the advent of Newer, Cleaner, Prettier games. Very few games are so replayable, so symetrical in a strategic sense. THAT is what makes a game live forever.

-Smack

	20-07-2001 21:18									#6
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*sob*

You..hit..me...right...here...man...

	20-07-2001 22:09									#7
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I'm definitely getting Civ III, but the thing that makes SMAC/SMAX stand out from the Civ's is it's way of approaching the game, making unique and interesting characters and the way they interact with each other. That's why I think I'll be playing this way after Civ III comes out.

	20-07-2001 22:39									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: mac version of CIV III in the works, it will invariably be released 6-12 months after the PC version

Since westlake interactive is "keeping the development in sync" with the pc version, it should only be one or two months before the game goes cross platform.

	20-07-2001 23:00									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I have to say that for the pantheon of games I have/have bought, SMAC/AX has been the only one with real staying power. I WOULD like to see the idea moved forward. I think a generalized colonization sim could be a winner, at least with those of us who really don't enjoy shooting people all the time.

	21-07-2001 00:00									#10
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Peacekeeper

	21-07-2001 02:24									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Ah...someone said Colonization...sigh...

That, my friends, is the next thing I want to see from Sid. (Although I thing Maxis will be making an Expansion to SMSG before the first even hits stores).

	21-07-2001 07:20									#12
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Yes, AC/X is very rich with characters while not only injecting a Sci-Fi setting, but also retaining and expanding on the core rules to Civ I and II.

I am also concerned that I may not be able to adapt to musketts and cannons after having PBs and Singularity powered Gravships. Why build the pyramids when you could build the Voice of Planet?

	21-07-2001 10:18									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

You know guys, I really tried to get into Civ. I really did. I just didn't have the same feeling for it as I did AC. Civ just seemed bland to me. I know if I said that on the other forums I would be flamed to a burnt crisp. I mean is it really going to be that different from Civ 2. It seems to be mainly cosmetic changes and making it into what people wanted Civ 2 to be. I could be wrong. And I will tell you another thing that keeps the game alive for me. Thats the fiction forum. The AC universe is so much more alive to me than the whole historical retelling. Maybe if Civ 3 had some kind of story behind it. Maybe if there were real feuds going on. Then I would get into more. But to me, it's just a case of the Aztecs crossing over my borders again and not that no good evil Yang trying to steal my reasources or that up tight Lal preaching about the charter. I could never find myselfs hating the Aztecs. They just used the same one liners as the Vikings used. Does anyone else here feel the same?

	21-07-2001 11:56									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I can't imagine that Sid won't be able to bring us another revolutionary TBS game in Civ3. Each successive game in the series has put it's predecessors into the shadows, in many ways. From Civ, to Civ2, to AC/X, we have seen a geometric progression of not only the cosmetics, but also the gamplay.

But the proof is in the pudding!

	21-07-2001 13:18									#15
	Suffering from ads?

Well Told Sprayber, I feel exactly the same way. This is the SMAC sob Thread..Whoa is SMAC!

Does anyone know how well AC sold compared to CIV II? I'd guess about 1/4th as many copies..just a guess. The reason I ask is to try to determine if any more energy will be put into the AC branch of the line. I truly hope so! When I wandered over to the CIV threads I was amazed at how BIG they seemed...so organized. I truly don't mind being in the minority, but I'd love it if SMAC II came out and rose to the top of the charts, smushing CIV III down to second. It's not that I don't like the CIV games, for one thing, AC is rightly called 'CIV in Space'. It's not entirely true, but for anyone that doesn't truly have a passion for this kind of game, that's how it seems. But it's like Sprayber (where on Chiron did you get that name lad?) said, there isn't the grand feeling to 'replaying' ancient civilizations that there is with imagining new ones.

To carry that thought a bit further, in my own writing, and definately in that of others, I notice the propensity to project our current worldview, paradigm if you will, on the future. I guess I'm commenting on Imagination. It's such a limited thing, always tied to present, past, and perspectives. I wonder what a Vandal or a Goth would imagine a future world to be like? It would certainly seem limited to us, happily sitting in their future. I think that's why I prefer the future settings to the past ones...I know I'm only projecting the hopes and dreams of now on the possibility of then, but I'd rather do that where there isn't evidence to the contrary in the history books!

-Smack

	21-07-2001 15:10									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

I struggled with SMAC/X. I played it for awhile but put it to one side and went back to CIV2. I read a comment in a magazine about SMAC and why it wasn't as good/successful as CIV2 and they said the problem with SMAC is that you can't really identify with it. Unlike in CIV2 where you know what a pikeman is or a horse etc but who knows what is Polymorphic Software?

So what changed? I wanted to play multiplayer so I had a look around and came across the SMAC threads. I read how enthusiastic people were for the game which made me question my thoughts on it. Signed up for a few games. I thought I should do some reading so I downloaded Vel's guide and well, bugger me! I suddenly realised how complex the game was with so much going on under the surface - unlike CIV2. The game is huge and afaik no one has come up with a killer strategy so it forces you to look for new ideas of how to play it. Going back to CIV2 is impossible now for me - it would be too limiting.

I have high hopes for CIV3. I think we will see lots of SMAC stuff in it but I fully intend to carry on with SMAC. Maybe Firaxis will base SMAC2 on CIV3 as I can't see them ever going back to the simplicity of CIV2. And I think that would turn out fine.

	23-07-2001 09:47									#17
	Tired of ads?

I haven't played CIV II since I started playing SMAC. The reason is obvious. SMAC is a quantum leap over CIV in terms of interface, SE choices, and the design queue. Each game can be dramatically different from any preceding game. I could not say that about CIV.

In checking the CIV III forum here, I seem to see the same improvements and units we saw in CIV II. Just the graphics seem to be upgraded. So, if they stick to the same unit concepts as CIV, we will have lost he design workshop of SMAC. Now that will be a major disappointment if true.

I hope CIV III incorporates all the improvements of SMAC, but fixes some of the bugs. I fear, though, that it really is just an improved CIV II. Which probably means that I will play a few games of CIV III, get bored, and then come back to SMAC.

	23-07-2001 11:04									#18
	Put an end to popups!

I look forward to CIV3. When I first got CIV2 I was completely addicted. A buddy at work would eat lunch with me and we'd discuss how the damned carthaginians were pissing us off. Man, it was loads of fun. But I'll probably still play SMACX.

What I think would be cool is if they make SMACX2 as maybe an expansion pack. It could have a few new factions and improved diplomacy. (maybe even tweak the AI behaviour a little bit). The best thing about SMACX is the personality of the AI factions. If CIV3 has that much depth with the other nations it will be great indeed. Still I'd love to have more SMACX. (the one thing I don't like much is the aliens....I don't hate them, but I have yet to have a game where they didn't have to be wiped out. And its too easy since atrocities don't count against them.)

D4

	24-07-2001 01:17									#19
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I personally would love to see SMAC/X2! If they would just clean up the game, improve the diplomacy (which is still decent anyhow) and perhaps add the ability to settle on even more planets, then it would be a dream come true.

As far as CivIII and what it will do for the future of the CIV genre- I hope that we aren't getting a candy-coated CivII. But how could Firaxis even do this? I just hope that the mass migration of Firaxis personnel last year didn't kill the CIV dream.