12-06-2000 10:51									#1
	OCC fortnight 11 - Discussion and logs Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It has been more than a week since the last log was posted for fortnight 10, so I'll assume that you are all ready to play #11. So you can now download it here.

Vik has sent me this scenario where you are on a one-square island surrounded by a ring of ocean, then a ring of land, another ring of ocean and another ring of land.

This means that you won't be able to contact the other civs and with Marco Polo's being lost you'll have to play this on your own without help from the AI. So maybe the MGE players can also have a go at this, because they won't be bothered by the agressive AI.

No contact and no possibilty to explore and send out caravans may be a bit boring, but it may also be fun for a change. Just let me know what you think.

Without help from the AI a record will certainly not be possible; Vik had already sent this to me two weeks ago and I already played it and landed in 1931. I'll post my log later when some other people have also finished it.

	12-06-2000 13:04									#2
	Got spare money?

Ha ha!! Vik, you won't believe this, but i very nearly made a scenario myself with rings of ocean and land!!!!!!! i've got the map somewhere on my HD, weird hey!!?!??!

	12-06-2000 22:30									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

But what would prevent the AI from contacting you?

	12-06-2000 23:12									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The fact that the AI can't reach you prevents them from contacting you.

	12-06-2000 23:48									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Perfect for my granary-HG strategy!

	13-06-2000 00:13									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, without getting technology from the AI you will certainly have more time to build them, but without tribute and gifts you may also need that time to build things that you would normally have bought with all that extra gold.

	13-06-2000 01:32									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Forgive me, gentlemen, I'm still not understanding something. In theory at least, the AI can reach you. Since they can build more than one city, what would prevent them from putting a settler on a trireme and settle the inner ring? Then they could build another trireme and explore the water around your city? I'm not sure what would precipitate a contact, but in theory they could do this?

	13-06-2000 01:49									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The outer ring is mountain. I think the AI would follow AH's philosophy, and not build a city on a mountain.

I'm not saying it is impossible for them to contact you, I'm just saying... Yeah, it's impossible.

edit: Looks like you beat me on this one Paul. I finished my session today with the building of Appollo. It's 1891, and I have dozens of freight ready for rushbuilding components, but in retrospect I don't think I have enough. (I skipped Robotics, so have only 62 production).

There were interesting choices to be made early on. I'll be interested in seeing everybody's strategy.
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited June 12, 2000).]

	13-06-2000 02:02									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Great, Tom!

That's what I was going for on this. I really wanted to scrutinize city-management style on this.

In addition, no matter what your level of OCC-experience is, I think everyone can find success on this.

But I hope I did not bore too much

	13-06-2000 03:21									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

How do you guys design the OCC scenarios?

	13-06-2000 05:17									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Vik

Boring to some but a great scenario for beginners as it eliminates 2 aspects from the early exploration: hut searching strategy and AI diplomacy tactics. Perhaps the newbies have a chance to catch up with the veterans on this one?

Just got going but who'd have thought that the main inhabitants of the fabled Atlantis would be somnolent camels laden with hides, dye and gold with nowhere to drop their load - poor sacrificial citizens at the alter of Wonders.

	13-06-2000 05:21									#12
	Got spare money?

Sorry for the typo: "alter" <= "altar"

	13-06-2000 05:33									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Tonic, you can edit your posts (one of the icons along the top of each post), so no to be embarassed about typos.

One neat thing about this scenario is that there is little to no chance involved - replay won't be tainted by knowledge of other civ locations. I definitely plan to have another go at this. I was not happy with my final city population, and want to see what would happen if I tried growing more.

	14-06-2000 08:43									#14
	Got spare money?

This one went pretty fast as there was not nearly as much you could do early.I saw 2 ways to go early.Build a settler and improve the land delaying Collosus.Or go for a harbor and possibly delay Construction and Republic.hehe or try Xin's plan.I lost several turns due to plain old laziness or could have landed a little earlier.Maybe 10 years earlier...oh well.Every turn counts in OCC.Gold was always short.

log follows
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3900-settler joins city
3850-govt.-Monarchy-warrior
3650-warrior
3300-Map Making
3250-trireme
3200-size 3
2900-settler-start wonder
2750-Bronze Working
1850-Writing
1350-settler rejoins city
1250-Currency
1050-Collosus
1000-”we love the king”
925-Masonary
800-library
750-Construction
650-temple
500-Literacy
400-market
300-The Republic-revolt
225-govt.-Republic-can’t “we love” no Mysticism or trade routes-disband warriors-can’t quite finish colliseum
150-colliseum-”we love” size 5
50-Mysticism
-----------------------------
AD1-aquaduct
40-end “we love” 11(no harbor)-sell temple
100-Philosophy>Math
220-Astronomy
380-Cope’s-University
460-Trade
520-build university
560-Pottery
580-caravan
620-Seafaring
660-harbor
700-Medicine
740-caravan
800-Horseback Riding-caravan
880-caravan
900-The Wheel
940-caravan
980-sell colliseum
1000-Shake’s-Engineering
1100-”we love” 11
1120-Sanitation
1140-sewer
1200-caravan
1220-Gravity
1240-caravan-end “we love” 19(no food)
1320-Banking-caravan
1360-caravan
1400-Invention
1440-caravan
1480-Democracy-revolt-caravan
1500-govt-Democracy
1520-Sir Ike’s
1530-Warrior Code
1550-Iron Working
1570-Gunpowder
1590-Chemistry
1600-bank
1620-Explosives
1630-Engineer
1650-Bridge Building-caravan
1670-caravan
1680-Metallurgy
1690-caravan
1720-Physics-caravan-plains>grassland
1750-caravan
1752-Physics
1756-caravan
1758-Steam Engine
1760-caravan-start wonder
1764-Railroad
1768-Darwin’s>Magnetism>Electricity
1772-Refrigeration
1778-Industrialization
1780-supermarket
1784-”we love” 18
1786-Steel-engineer-end “we love” 18
1794-Economics-”we love” 18
1800-end “we love” 21-sell sewer
1802-The Corporation-sell aquaduct
1804-stock exchange
1808-freight
1810-Refining
1812-freight
1816-Combustion-freight
1822-Automobile
1828-Electronics-superhighway
1834-Mass Production
1840-Feudalism
1846-Conscription
1850-factory
1851-Chivalry
1854-Leadership-power plant
1856-mass transit-disband trirme
1857-Tactics-freight
1858-freight
1859-freight
1860-Machine Tools-freight
1862-freight
1863-Miniaturization
1864-offshore platform
1865-freight
1866-Computers-freight
1869-Mobile Warfare-research lab
1871-Robotics
1874-Flight-manufacturing plant
1875-freight
1876-freight
1877-Radio-freight
1878-freight
1879-freight
1880-Advanced Flight-freight
1881-freight
1882-freight
1883-freight
1884-Rocketry-transport
1887-Space Flight
1888-Apollo
1891-Plastics
1895-Atomic Theory
1899-Nuclear Fission
1903-Nuclear Power
1907-The Laser
1911-Superconductor
1917-Fusion Power-sell research lab
1919-15-3-3-1-1-1-launch

the usual
1934-ARRIVAL AC

Collosus-1050BC
Cope’s-380AD
Shake’s-1000AD
Sir Isaac-1520AD
Darwin’s-1768
Apollo-1888

Monarchy-3850BC
Republic-225BC
Democracy-1500AD

Trade-460AD
Construction-750BC
Sanitation-1120AD
Refrigeration-1772AD
Automobile-1822AD
Computers-1866AD
Space Flight-1887AD



[This message has been edited by Smash (edited June 13, 2000).]

	14-06-2000 09:48									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

An interesting scenario. I took a slightly different initial approach than Smash and used the settler to improve the land before adding him to the city. Narrowly missed being wiped out by the Egyptians at end-game. My late-game research slowed me down (5 turns/discovery -- compare with Smash. . .) It's my first log -- sorry it's so wordy.


The results:


AC landing 1935

Governments:

3850 BC Monarchy
525 BC Republic
1260 AD Democracy

Wonders:

1050 BC Colossus
340 AD Copernicus'
720 AD Shake's
1520 AD Sir Isaac Newton'
1776 AD Darwin's
1883 AD Apollo Program

City size:

1 AD Size 12
1080 AD Size 21

Advances:

250 BC Construction
50 BC Trade
780 AD Sanitation
1720 AD Refrigeration
1792 AD Automobile
1851 AD Computers
1880 AD Space Flight
.
.
.
.

so here it is:

3900 BC Revolution
3850 BC Monarchy
3800 BC Warrior
3550 BC Warrior
3150 BC Map Making
3100 BC Temple
2650 BC Trireme. Building Lighthouse.
2550 BC Bronze Working. Switched to building Colossus.
1950 BC Writing
1350 BC Mysticism
1050 BC Colossus. City size 5.
925 BC Literacy. Built Library. Building Barracks.
825 BC Built Barracks. Sold Barracks. Building Barracks.
800 BC Philosophy. Currency. Switched to building Marketplace.
625 BC The Republic, revolution. Marketplace. Building Barracks.
525 BC Republic. Disband Warrior.
500 BC Built Barracks. Sold Barracks. Building Barracks.
400 BC Masonry. Switched to City Walls.
350 BC Ottomans destroyed by Greeks – as if I care.
250 BC Construction. Switched to Colosseum.
175 BC Colosseum
150 BC Begin WLTCD (size 5). Add Settler to Atlantis (size 6).
75 BC Aqueduct. Building Trireme.
50 BC Trade. Switched to Caravan.
1 AD End WLTCD (size 12).
20 AD Built Caravan. Disband Warrior.
40 AD Mathematics. Built Caravan.
140 AD Astronomy
160 AD Built Caravan
220 AD Built Caravan
240 AD Medicine
280 AD Built Caravan (my 5th). Begin Copernicus’ Observatory.
340 AD Copernicus’ Observatory.
360 AD Pottery
400 AD Built Caravan.
420 AD Horseback Riding
460 AD Built Caravan.
520 AD Built Caravan.
540 AD The Wheel.
580 AD Built Caravan.
640 AD Built Caravan (my 5th). Begin Shakespeare’s Theatre.
660 AD Engineering
720 AD Shakespeare’s Theatre. Building City Walls. Disband Trireme. Sold Colosseum.
740 AD Sold Temple.
780 AD Sanitation. Switched to Sewer System.
840 AD Sewer System. Building City Walls.
880 AD Seafaring. Switched to Harbor.
900 AD Begin WLTCD (size 12).
920 AD Harbor. Building Colosseum.
1000 AD University. Switched to University
1020 AD University. Building Colosseum.
1080 AD Banking. Switched to Bank.
End WLTCD (size 21).
1100 AD Bank. Building Caravan.
1140 AD Invention
1160 AD Built Caravan.
1200 AD Democracy, revolution. Built Caravan.
1260 AD Democracy. Built Caravan.
1300 AD Theory of Gravity.
1320 AD Built Caravan.
1360 AD Warrior Code. Built Caravan.
1400 AD Built Caravan.
1420 AD Iron Working.
1460 AD Built Caravan (my 7th). Building Trireme.
1480 AD Navigation. Switched to Caravel (not Caravan).
1500 AD Built Caravel. Begin Sir Isaac Newton’s College.
1520 AD Sir Isaac Newton’s College. Physics.
1540 AD Chemistry.
1550 AD Built Caravan.
1560 AD Bridge Building.
1580 AD Gunpowder. Built Caravan. Building Settler.
1600 AD Explosives. Switched to Engineer.
1610 AD Engineer #1. Building Engineer.
1630 AD Magnetism. Built Engineer #2. Building Caravan.
1650 AD Built Caravan.
1660 AD Metallurgy
1670 AD Built Caravan.
1690 AD Electricity. Built Caravan. Building Colosseum.
1720 AD Refrigeration. Switched to Supermarket.
1730 AD Supermarket.
1750 AD Steam Engine.
1752 AD Built Caravan
1756 AD Railroad. Built Caravan.
1762 AD Industrialization
1764 AD Built Caravan. Begin Darwin’s Voyage.
1768 AD Steel.
1774 AD Economics.
1776 AD Darwin’s Voyage. The Corporation, Refining. Building Factory.
1778 AD Begin WLTPD (size 19).
1786 AD Combustion.
1788 AD End WLTPD (size 24).
1792 AD Automobile. Switched to Superhighways.
1794 AD Superhighways.
1798 AD Electronics
1802 AD Stock Exchange.
1804 AD Feudalism.
1806 AD Built Freight. Disband Caravel.
1810 AD Chivalry.
1812 AD Built Freight.
1816 AD Conscription
1818 AD Built Freight.
1822 AD Leadership
1824 AD Built Freight.
1828 AD Tactics
1830 AD Built Freight.
1834 AD Machine Tools
1836 AD Built Freight.
1840 AD Miniaturization
1842 AD Built Freight. Persians build United Nations.
1844 AD Allied with Babylonians; everybody else asks for money and declares war. Babylonians gift 50 gold.
1846 AD Mass Production. Peace and Alliance with Indians.
1848 AD Begin WLTPD (size 24). Start changing silk squares to wheat.
1851 AD Computers
1852 AD Research Lab. End WLTPD (size 27).
1854 AD Mobile Warfare
1855 AD Factory.
1856 AD Robotics
1857 AD Power Plant.
1859 AD Flight. Begin WLTPD (size 27).
1861 AD Offshore Platform. Alliance with Egyptians, peace with Persians and Greeks.
1862 AD End WLTPD (size 28). Could be bigger but anticipating starvation.
1863 AD Indians ask me to declare war on Persians, and I do it.
1864 AD Radio
1869 AD Advanced Flight
1870 AD Manufacturing Plant.
1871 AD Built Freight (50 shields/turn)
1872 AD Built Transport.
1873 AD Built Engineer #3.
1874 AD Rocketry. Begin SETI Program. Built Engineer #4.
1880 AD Space Flight. Switch to Apollo Program.
1883 AD Apollo Program. Build SS Structurals over next 15 turns, disbanding 2 Engineers and Transport. Had to buy temple and switch to Structural because production only about 65 shields.
1889 AD Alliance with Greeks, gift 250 gold.
1890 AD Plastics (date is approximate).
1891 AD End WLTPD (size 29). Begin WLTPD (size 29).
1894 AD End WLTPD (size 31).
1897 AD Greeks gift 125 gold.
1898 AD Nuclear Fission. All 15 SS Structurals done.
1900 AD 1st SS Component.
1901 AD Nuclear Power
1903 AD 2nd SS Component.
1904 AD Laser
1905 AD 3rd SS Component.
1907 AD Superconductor. 4th SS Component.
1911 AD 1st SS Module.
1912 AD Sold Manufacturing Plant.
1913 AD Fusion Power. 2nd SS Module. Done with research, all taxmen now, tax 100%. Sold Power Plant. Disband both Engineers remaining, since they’re about to starve. Make peace with everyone when I have no money after rush-buying the. . .
1914 AD 3rd SS Module. Spaceship Launch. (15-2-2-1-1-1, flight time 21 years). Building Mass Transit.
1915 AD Sold Factory.
1916 AD Mass Transit
1917 AD City Walls
1918 AD SAM Missile Battery
1919 AD Engineer. Sold Research Lab.
1920 AD Barracks. Bought Alpine Troops. Sold University. Egyptian Bomber right next to city: fearing sneak attack, I give them all my money (only 150 gold).
1921 AD Alpine Troops. Disband Engineer. Build Transport.
1922 AD Oops. Buy Engineer.
1923 AD Engineer (city size is 28). Start cleaning 3 polluted squares.
1925 AD Tank. Egyptians sneak attack, killing Alpine Troops with Bomber. Rush-buy another Alpine Troop, selling Library.
1926 AD Alpine Troops. Rush-buy Fighter, in case Egyptians try again.
1927 AD Kill Egyptian Bomber with Fighter.
1928 AD Egyptian Bomber kills Tank. Fighter kills Egyptian Bomber. Rush-buy another Tank, since they at least put up a fight against the Bomber.
1929 AD Egypt sends 2 bombers, troops hold. Begin building Cruise Missile to send those bastards a message.
1930 AD Rush-buy Cruise Missile.
1931 AD Launch Cruise Missile into “the river district” of downtown Thebes, slaughtering thousands of innocents. Doesn’t work. Decide to build SDI in case they get the same idea.
1933 AD SDI Defense.
1934 AD Colosseum. Blitzkrieg of Egyptian Bombers barely thwarted. Good thing, too, since they have Combined Arms (i.e. Paratroopers).
1935 AD AC Landing.



[This message has been edited by butch (edited June 14, 2000).]

	14-06-2000 17:16									#16
	Got spare money?

I could see two ways to proceed: 1) Add my settler to the city and worry about improving the land later. 2) Start researching Map Making, and build a trireme before building the Collosus.

I tried method 2, but then ended up going for a Library before Collosus. I also added the Settler to the city to grow it to size 5 (allowing me to work all 4 specials).

I noticed that Smash, with the same size city as me (size 21), was able to get later research every 3 to 4 turns. Even at 100% science, I was getting them every 5 turns after space flight. Maybe my AIs were further behind in science.

I'm going to test something this morning. I've got a 1740 saved game. I'm going to relaod it, and go straight for Communism after Refrigeration. I'll build United Nations and try to gift all my science to the AIs. We'll see how that will affect the science rate for the end game...

3900BC - switched to Monarchy
3800BC - built warrior
3600BC - built warrior
3250BC - Map Making
3200BC - built trireme
3050BC - built warrior
2600BC - Writing, disband warrior
2450BC - built Library
2250BC - add settler to city (now size 5)
2200BC - Bronze Working
1900BC - Currency
1600BC - Masonry
1300BC - built Colossus
1250BC - Construction
1100BC - built Temple
950BC - Mysticism
900BC - built Marketplace
875BC - begin WLTKD
800BC - Literacy
650BC - built Colosseum, end WLTKD
625BC - Philosophy, The Republic, revolution, switched to The Republic
600BC - begin WLTCD (pop is 5), disband both warriors
500BC - end WLTCD (pop is 8)
475BC - built Aqueduct
450BC - Trade
400BC - built settler
275BC - Pottery, built caravan (now, if I only had an airplane...)
75BC - Seafaring, begin WLTCD (pop is 7)
50BC - built Harbour, disband settler
60AD - end WLTCD (pop is 12)
100AD - Mathematics
220AD - Astronomy
260AD - built Copernicus' Observatory
300AD - University
400AD - Medicine
460AD - built University
500BC - Horseback Riding
600BC - The Wheel
720AD - Engineering
820AD - Sanitation, built Shakeaspeare's Theatre, sell colosseum
840AD - sell temple
860AD - built sewer system, begin WLTCD (pop is 12)
940AD - Banking
1000AD - end WLTCD (pop is 19)
1020AD - built Bank, disband trireme (production is now 20, making rushbuilding caravans easier)
1040AD - Theory of Gravity
1120AD - Economics
1200AD - Invention
1280AD - Democracy, revolution
1320AD - built trireme (remembered that I need a boat to deliver caravans back to city)
1340AD - switched to Democracy
1380AD - built Isaac Newton's College
1400AD - Warrior Code
1420AD - built Stock Exchange
1460AD - Iron Working
1510AD - Gunpowder
1540AD - Chemistry
1570AD - Explosives
1580AD - built Engineer
1600AD - Bridge Building
1610AD - built Engineer, disband (was running out of food)
1630AD - Navigation
1660AD - Physics
1690AD - Magnetism
1720AD - Metallurgy
1750AD - Electricity
1758AD - Refrigeration
1760AD - built Supermarket
1764AD - built Engineer
1766AD - begin WLTPD (pop is 16)
1768AD - Steam Engine
1770AD - end WLTPD (pop is 18)
1776AD - Railroad
1780AD - begin WLTPD (pop is 18)
1782AD - built Darwin's Voyage, Industrialization, The Corporation
1788AD - end WLTPD (pop is 21), sell sewer system
1792AD - Refining, sell aqueduct
1800AD - Steel
1808AD - Combustion
1816AD - Automobile
1818AD - built Superhighways
1822AD - Conscription
1830AD - Feudalism
1836AD - Chivalry
1842AD - Leadership, built factory
1850AD - Tactics
1854AD - Machine Tools, built power plant
1858AD - Electronics
1862AD - Miniturization
1864AD - built offshore platform
1866AD - Mass Production
1870AD - Computers (I'm going to skip robotics because I have production of over 60 and a load of caravans)
1871AD - built Research Lab
1873AD - Flight
1877AD - Radio
1881AD - Advanced Flight
1885AD - Rocketry
1890AD - Space Flight
1891AD - Appollo Program
1895AD - Plastics
1900AD - Atomic Theory
1905AD - Nuclear Fission
1910AD - Nuclear Power
1915AD - The Laser
1923AD - Superconductor
1929AD - Fusion Power, Launch 15-3-3-1-1-1
1944AD - Landing on AC

	14-06-2000 20:19									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Nobody built GL and UN?

	15-06-2000 09:00									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

UN?GL? What for?Actually,I thought about The Library,but figured if I got any techs they would come at the most inopportune time.Without tribute or gifts of gold it was tough enough to get things built.

My research went 5 once then dropped.I had several unexplained changes.Most were good.4>3.
I had at least 3 civs killed off,but your theory would still be right if the game uses some sort of technology TOTAL before deciding if you need an "adjustment" in your rate.

	15-06-2000 09:37									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

I did build the GL, but I thought of it a bit too late, so I only got three advances from it. Anyway, here's my log:

3850 BC Gov: Monarchy
3800 BC Warrior
3600 BC Warrior
3450 BC Warrior
3250 BC Mapmaking
3050 BC Trireme
2750 BC Bronze Working
2100 BC Mysticism
1500 BC Writing
925 BC Colossus
900 BC Currency
875 BC Library
700 BC Literacy
675 BC Marketplace
525 BC Temple
475 BC Republic, revolution
425 BC Gov: Republic
Start WLTCD, size 4
325 BC End WLTCD, size 7
275 BC Masonry
100 BC Construction
25 BC Colosseum
Start WLTCD, size 7
1 AD Aqueduct
40 AD Mathematics
100 AD End WLTCD, size 12
160 AD Astronomy
280 AD Philosophy, Pottery
300 AD Copernicus' Observatory
360 AD Seafaring
380 AD Harbor
440 AD Horseback Riding
520 AD Warrior Code
640 AD Iron Working
700 AD Great Library
Sold Temple
760 AD Bridge Building
880 AD Wheel
1000 AD Engineering
1140 AD Trade
1280 AD Medicine
1320 AD Sold Colosseum
1340 AD Shakespeare's Theatre
1400 AD Sanitation
1420 AD Start WLTCD, size 12
1440 AD Sewer System
1530 AD Banking
1540 AD Bank
End WLTCD, size 20
1570 AD Invention (GL)
1580 AD University
1590 AD University
1620 AD Theory of Gravity
1660 AD Democracy, revolution
Gov: Democracy
1680 AD Gunpowder (GL)
Isaac Newton's College
1690 AD Economics
1710 AD Metallurgy
1730 AD Chemistry
1750 AD Navigation
1752 AD Stock Exchange
1756 AD Physics
1762 AD Feudalism (GL)
Magnetism
1768 AD Electricity
1774 AD Explosives
1776 AD Engineer
1780 AD Refrigeration
1782 AD Engineer
1786 AD Steam Engine
Start WLTPD, size 18
1788 AD Supermarket
1794 AD Railroad
End WLTPD, size 21
1800 AD Industrialization
1806 AD Corporation
1812 AD Steel
1814 AD Darwin's Voyage: Refining, Combustion
1820 AD Automobile
1822 AD Superhighways
1826 AD Electronics
1828 AD Factory
1830 AD Sold Sewer System
1832 AD Mass Production
Sold Aqueduct
1834 AD Power Plant
1838 AD Conscription
1844 AD Chivalry
1850 AD Leadership
1853 AD Tactics
1856 AD Machine Tools
1859 AD Miniaturization
1861 AD Offshore Platform
1862 AD Computers
1863 AD Research Lab
1866 AD Mobile Warfare
1869 AD Robotics
1870 AD Manufacturing Plant
1872 AD Flight
1876 AD Radio
1879 AD Advanced Flight
1883 AD Rocketry
1887 AD Space Flight
1888 AD Apollo Program
1891 AD Plastics
1895 AD Atomic Theory
1899 AD Nuclear Fission
1903 AD Nuclear Power
1907 AD Laser
1911 AD Superconductor
1913 AD Sold Harbor
1914 AD Sold Manufacturing Plant
1915 AD Fusion Power
1916 AD Launch
1931 AD Arrival

	14-06-2000 22:42									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Here comes the guy who never played but always have something to say .

I think you guys built Manufacturing Plant too early. Since you had 50+ net shields you didn't need it until the turn before building Apollo. This saves maintainance cost. Furthermore, if you had enough money or caravans on reserve, then you could simply skip mobile warfare and robotics, allowing earlier launching.

For same reason, if you happened to have several plains on river you could also transform them to hills (or if no time for that, mine them to forests). With RR they could provide more shields, thus allowing you to postpone building offshore platform until the turn before building Apollo.

	14-06-2000 22:52									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well, I replayed this from 1740 and built United Nations. As my new thread ( http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001230.html ) says, I was horrified when I gifted all my tech to the AIs and my science rate didn't change.

With my help, the AI did research Feudalism, Flight, Atomic Theory and Nuclear Fission before me, so they were a small help.

Then Persia started spliting up in civil war, and 2 new civs were formed (bringing the number back up to the original 7). I was researching Superconductor at the time, and suddenly discovered it 2 turns early. Checking my advance rate it had changed from 6 turns to 3. This continued for Fusion Power.

Going back and checking the beaker requirements directly, I found that it was taking 3504 beakers to research Superconductor before the creation of the 7th civ, and 1752 beakers after. Big difference!
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited June 14, 2000).]

	14-06-2000 23:03									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Xin Yu, the manufacturing plant should be built at least 7 turns before space flight, so that construction of Appollo can be completed the turn after space flight (building at 80 production per turn for 8 turns is more efficient than redeeming 11 caravans).

You would then have 6 to 12 turns to play with about when to buy the manufacturing plant. The 50-100 gold saved in delaying construction is pretty insignificant at this stage of the game.

	15-06-2000 02:30									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

In this game, since you can't rely on AI civs to get cash and tech, I think maybe KRC is useful. Anyone tried it?

	15-06-2000 02:51									#24
	Got spare money?

Tom, I thought about building UN but I realized at space flight, I'd have contact with Apollo. But then I tried to give away science and the AI scoffed at me. Thought maybe Vik made the AI very hostile, but maybe it was my position in the space race or an advantage of UN.

	16-06-2000 09:15									#26
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I tried this game last night till 1800AD. I did not keep a log.

Early game, I recommend building a trieme (after your first warrior) and a settler, then add the settler back at size 7 (Get mysticism and Republic early so with a temple you can celebrate to 7).

If not enough money, skip colloseum since at size 8 you can celebrate to 9, then let the city grow naturally to 10, and celebrate again to 11.

Build colossus, GL, Copernius, Shakspear, KRC, approximately in that order. Copernius needs to be in a higher priority since the AI will compete with you.

GL will give you a lot of free techs. With KRC (and at size 20) you chunk out caravans every two turns without spending any extra money. Do it all the way till industrilization. Your settler will be busy cleaning pollution.

I propose a new chllange in this game: no incremental buying. I think KRC is a must.

	17-06-2000 22:09									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

Comparison table for Fortnight 11 is now available.

	18-06-2000 14:19									#28
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Pfew... This one was really hard. Always short of cash. While building the Space Ship I needed 2 turns for every component because of it. I decided to use my 9 caravans to build each module in 1 turn. Just missed a 1800's landing because of it

Collosus-1500BC
Cope’s-260AD
Shake’s-620AD
Sir Isaac-1510AD
Darwin’s-1766
Apollo-1856

Monarchy-3850BC
Republic-225BC
Democracy-1420AD

Trade-75BC
Construction-600BC
Sanitation-900AD
Refrigeration-1730AD
Automobile-1782AD
Computers-1824AD
Space Flight-1855AD

1 AD Size 12
1120 AD Size 21

3850 Monarchy
3800 Warrior
3600 Warrior
3150 Map Making
3100 Trireme
2600 Bronze
1950 Writing
1500 Colossus
1350 Currency
1100 Library
1000 Mysticism
850 Marketplace
825 Masonry
700 Temple
600 Construction
425 Literacy
400 Colosseum
225 Republic, Revolution, Republic
200 WLTCD, size 5
175 Aquaduct
75 Philosophy, Trade, disband Warrior
50 Disband warrior
------
1 End WLTCD, size 12
40 Mathematics
140 Astronomy
240 Medicine
260 Cop's Obs
300 Pottery
360 Seafaring
420 Banking
560 University
600 Sell Colosseum
620 Shakes', sell Temple
660 Horseback Riding
700 Build University
740 Wheel
780 Harbor
820 Engineering
900 Sanitation
920 WLTCD, size 12
940 Sewer System
1000 Warrior Code
1100 Iron Working, build Bank
1120 End WLTCD, size 21
1160 Bridge Building
1220 Theory of Gravity
1300 Invention
1380 Democracy, Revolution
1420 Democracy
1480 Astronomy
1510 Newton's
1520 Gunpowder
1540 Chemistry
1560 Metallurgy
1580 Navigation
1610 Physics
1640 Magnetism
1670 Electricity
1700 Explosives
1710 Engineer
1730 Refrigeration, Engineer
1750 Supermarket
1752 Steam Engine
1756 Railroad
1760 Disband Trireme
1762 WLTPD, size 19
1764 Industrialization
1766 Darwin, Corporation, Refining
1768 End WLTPD, size 21, sold Sewer System
1770 Steel, sold Aquaduct
1776 Combustion
1782 Automobile
1784 Superhighway
1786 Feudalism
1790 Chivalry
1794 Leadership
1798 Conscription
1802 Tactics
1806 Machine Tools
1810 Electronics
1814 Miniaturization
1816 Offshore Platform
1818 Mass Production
1824 Computers
1826 Research Lab
1828 Bobile Warfare
1830 Factory
1832 Robotics
1834 Power Plant
1836 Flight
1842 Radio, Manifacturing Plant
1844 Transport
1848 Advanced Flight
1852 Rocketry
1855 Space Flight
1856 Apollo
1859 Plastics
1863 Athomic Theory
1867 Nuclear Fission
1870 Nuclear Power, 15 structures
1873 Laser
1876 Superconductor
1883 Fusion Power, 6 components, sold Manifacturing Plant
1884 sold Power Plant
1855 sold Factory, disband Transport and Settler
1886 3 Modules---->Launch Space Ship
1887-1900 The usual stuff
1901 Landing on AC

	18-06-2000 20:04									#29
	Support Apolyton

"Atlas the Titan the Small."

Says it all.

Didn't get spaceship finished, let alone land before this kindly owl thing came along and told me the scenario was all played out. Hard to know whether misconceived basic strategy, duff micromanagement or failures of concentration more to blame. (No, I do know really - this one tested my micromanagement skills to the point of destruction. Having hardly any gold and with precious few spare wheatsheaves in the foodbox most mistakes were costly - some ludicrously so).

Won't add to my blushes by posting a log. Can't conceive that it would aid anyone else to do so.

Some "never seen/heard that before" events along the way. If I'm ever on a one square island again I'll know not casually to put my ship to sleep if it's promptly going to hide itself behind the zillion caravans and freight I've built while waiting for my slooow research to let me built anything else. I could find no way to cycle through the units to get to the ship. Had to disband at half value until it appeared in the screen.

Never had sage advice from Elvis before (he agreed that I ought to get out a bit more - didn't tell me where the front door was tho'). Never seen a tetchy rep from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (bland buggers usually).

Strangely enough came by a trading hint too (if I can bear to go back and examine what might have trigered one or two peripheral events).

One big downside. Once you KNOW you're in such deep **** that the challenge is lost it is really quite depressing to have to play out the long losing game.

Once my bruised ego has recovered I'll give some anxious study to the logs above. Hope my lamebrain benefits - altho', am I right, you have to guess at some of the micromanagement behind the recorded events?

I shall also play the next one a lot slower.
[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited June 18, 2000).]